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firefly


Posts: 2149
Joined: May 2006
Southern Scotland, England and Wales - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 17.10hrs on Wed 14 Apr 10
Peculiarly, DrHosking had pre-empted this thread on last year's one! Just yesterday I was looking at 2009's and thought it must be about time the 2010 thread was revived. Sure enough, the first post in 2009 was on the 14th April, so that date seemed like a good one for 2010.

So... where are we compared to last year? Well, Helvellyn was looking like this on 12 April 2009. I'm no Lake District expert, but this photograph from 10 April 2010 shows some fairly substantial deposits on Helvellyn, and not at the longest-lying site on that hill, either.

From the pictures I've seen recently of Cross Fell & Helvellyn I'd say we don't need to worry too much about the snow disappearing before the start of May as there seems to be plenty of it around. What would be useful is a report from the Moffat hills... smiling smiley Over to you, moffatross...






Edited 2 times. Last edit at 20.40hrs Thu 10 Jun 10 by firefly.

WelshWizard


Posts: 215
Joined: Feb 2009
Last Visited: 13:20
3rd May 2015
Re: Southern Scotland/northern England - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 21.27hrs on Wed 14 Apr 10
Will try and keep and eye out on my travels.

firefly


Posts: 2149
Joined: May 2006
Re: Southern Scotland/northern England - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 11.16hrs on Fri 16 Apr 10
Many thanks to Mark Johnston, who sent me a link to the remaining snow on Ben Cleuch, Ochils.

The main wreath there, known locally as Lady Alva's Necklace (or Lady Alva's Web, in the past), is currently still very large and deep. This is exactly how we expected it to be after this season's northerly snows, given as it is south-facing. Another very interesting photograph shows three dead sheep, the possible victim of cornice collapse or avalanche.

Historically this patch was known to persist into summer, and it is certainly a candidate for persistence well into May at this stage. The photographs show the patch to be many hundreds of metres long.

Attachments: Ben Cleuch 1.jpg (91kB)   Ben Cleuch 3.jpg (38kB)   Sheep.jpg (68kB)  
firefly


Posts: 2149
Joined: May 2006
Re: Southern Scotland/northern England - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 11.17hrs on Fri 16 Apr 10
Another three pictures showing the substantial depth present.

Attachments: Ben Cleuch 2.jpg (58kB)   Cornice.jpg (28kB)   Cornice 2.jpg (31kB)  
Downhiller


Guest
Re: Southern Scotland/northern England - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 12.23hrs on Fri 16 Apr 10
ive lived in a place called Cambusbarron (just south of Stirling) all my life, from there you can see over to the Ochils in the east and the highland fault line to the west including ben ledi, ben Vorlich etc most over 1000ft higher than ben cleuch. There are far bigger patches on the Ochils, this is rare, there are also patches still lying aboout 250 metres above sea level. This winter has be extrordinary.

WelshWizard


Posts: 215
Joined: Feb 2009
Last Visited: 13:20
3rd May 2015
Re: Southern Scotland/northern England - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 17.29hrs on Fri 16 Apr 10
A live update from the train - there is quite a bit of snow on the Westerly side of Cross Fell and Great Dun Fell above Penrith. (Sorry was not able to view the Lakeland fells) Also, although not certain what I was looking at but there was a small patch of snow on a distant hill west of Oxenholme - possibly Middleton Fell?

Update: There are quite a few patches left on the westerly side of Hart Fell above Moffat (sorry to steal your thunder Moffat_Ross, but no doubt you can give more details) some appear of reasonable size in the burn lines.

Culter Fell and surrounding hills by Broad fell have some sizeable patches on northerly facing slopes.

Tinto hill still has some small patches just below the summit and just below the west ridge both on the southerly side.

South Western hills in the Pentlands also have some small patches remaining, Bleak Law has some small patches possibly as low as about 320m on NW facing slopes.

Final Update: There are some very small patches down to about 350m on the NW slopes of Craigengar and West Cairn Hill and some larger patches below the tops, most in gulleys.

Quite a hazy but glorious evening, you couldn't really see the hills to the North when descending into Edinburgh.



Edited 3 times. Last edit at 18.27hrs Fri 16 Apr 10 by WelshWizard.

firefly


Posts: 2149
Joined: May 2006
Re: Southern Scotland/northern England - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 11.33hrs on Sat 17 Apr 10
Yes, Downhiller, the large rounded hills of the Ochils are more conducive to gathering and blowing northerly snow to south facing aspects than the sharp, craggy peaks of Ben Vorlich, Stuc a' Chroin etc. Actually, Ben Ledi isn't that much higher than Ben Cleuch, but I have seldom seen snow lie long on that hill as most of the aspects for retention are poor.

As for the previous photograph with the dead sheep, Chionophile has stated to me in an email that these are likely to have been killed as they stood. Normally in a bad storm, sheep (like deer and hares) face away from snow (unlike ptarmigan and grouse). If they get caught in snow that fails to melt then they are stuck fast, and die. I did not notice at the time, but if you look you'll see the sheep are all facing the same direction (south), with their backs to the north (i.e. where the snow came from). Had they been avalanched then they would be in random positions down the hillside.

Chionophile


Posts: 692
Joined: Jan 2009
Last Visited: 22:07
24th Jan 2016
Re: Southern Scotland/northern England - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 14.09hrs on Sat 17 Apr 10
Top marks to Firefly for kicking off the 2010 snow-patch season so effectively. I had a wee smile when I saw the date of his first post, 14 April, for it was my 80th birthday. Seventy three years of obsessive interest in snow and snow-patches! If we consider lower hills that stand outside the main snowy ranges in the Highlands, it's not just the hills of northern England, the Southern Uplands and the Ochils that have unusually big late snow-patches. The Hill of Fare near Aberdeen still has a number of deep patches on south-facing slopes near the top of the woods. This was due to heavy drifting from the big plateau to the north and north-east during the winter, and especially in the big snowfall and northerly gale at the end of March and start of April. The southern tops that carry the snow reach just over 1400 feet in altitude and the patches are lying down to about 1200 feet, with the lowest at 1100 feet. Sandy Walker in Grantown told me that on 14 April a tiny patch of snow still lay in his garden. When I told Jamie this, he joked that if Firefly had a patch in his garden in Chelmsford during mid April he might be trying to prolong its existence by covering it with tinfoil!

WelshWizard


Posts: 215
Joined: Feb 2009
Last Visited: 13:20
3rd May 2015
Re: Southern Scotland/northern England - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 08.20hrs on Sun 18 Apr 10
Adam, a belated happy birthday! Did you manage to get out on your skis?! So how many birthdays have you managed to do that?

mrFlibble


Posts: 7
Joined: Apr 2010
Last Visited: 18:44
8th Jun 2013
Re: Southern Scotland/northern England - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 10.28hrs on Sun 18 Apr 10
I've been an avid fan of the snow patch threads on the forums for a 2-3 years now, but only just decided to register on the forums smiling smiley mainly because I have some photos to contribute. I was out for a drive yesterday (17/04/10) in the Cross Fell area and saw lots of snow patches and took a few snaps. The two I have attached were taken from the B6277 where the border between Cumbria and Co. Durham crosses it. Unfortunately they are not the best angle for spotting the snow. There was much more snow on one of the other slopes of Cross Fell. In general there were far more snow patches lying around everywhere in that area than I expected. Right down to just under 2000ft or so. Far too many to count smiling smiley
The 2nd photo was taken by holding some binoculars in front of my camera phone smiling smiley


[img695.imageshack.us]
[img541.imageshack.us]





Edited 7 times. Last edit at 11.17hrs Sun 18 Apr 10 by mrFlibble.

MG


Posts: 6
Joined: Aug 2007
Last Visited: 11:12
10th Nov 2011
Re: Southern Scotland/northern England - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 17.13hrs on Sun 18 Apr 10
Hi

I was in Langdale over the weekend and there was a substantial wreath of snow under Bowfell Buttress as well as another 200m long wreath under the Long Top summit of Crinkle Crags.

Fairfield also has a large patch low on its' southern slope, facing Ambleside.

Chionophile


Posts: 692
Joined: Jan 2009
Last Visited: 22:07
24th Jan 2016
Re: Southern Scotland/northern England - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 19.27hrs on Sun 18 Apr 10
Thanks, WelshWizard. I wasn’t out on skis on 14 April. By then there had been so much thaw that I’d have had to drive to upper Deeside. I didn’t fancy that and also I wanted to do some writing. I went skiing a few days before on 9 April, but the conditions then were outstanding. I was out on my Finnish touring skis across fields, moorland and woodland a few miles from my house. I’ve never skied in such snowy conditions in mid April so low down Deeside (600 feet, looking down at Aberdeen), deep snow everywhere except for exposed ridges where gales had blown it off. All side roads had been blocked, recently opened. Hard at first, the snow softened in warm sunshine to give easy travel. A curlew sang on a small patch of grass on a ridge, a nice sign of coming spring. I have skied on many days on 14 April but didn’t specifically set out to ski on my birthday, unlike my father who set aside his birthday (20 May) for many years to go skiing on Ben Macdui. Being 80 seems slightly ridiculous, as I don't feel different from 79, but folk say it's a bigger milestone than 79, i.e. four-score, like the old three-score and 10, I suppose. Let's hope, WelshWizard, we aren't treading too far into Firefly's thread on England and Southern Uplands!

edog2009


Posts: 146
Joined: May 2009
Last Visited: 08:15
24th Jul 2017
Re: Southern Scotland/northern England - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 19.38hrs on Sun 18 Apr 10
Is there a thread for the Welsh mountains? I was on Snowdon on Saturday and there is still a bit of snow on the summit and the tops of the corries (or should that be cwms), although it won't last long, I think.

Attachments: 1951.jpg (174kB)  
firefly


Posts: 2149
Joined: May 2006
Re: Southern Scotland/northern England - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 20.01hrs on Sun 18 Apr 10
Well, I've never heard of photographs being taken through a set of binoculars with a camera phone! Thanks, mrFlibble. It's difficult to know the size of the snow still visible from the photographs. What would you estimate it at?

I don't know if anyone is keeping an eye on the Peak District, but I'm certain that snow will still be present. This photograph from a day or so ago shows it was still there.

Chionophile


Posts: 692
Joined: Jan 2009
Last Visited: 22:07
24th Jan 2016
Re: Southern Scotland/northern England - 2010 snow patches
Date Posted: 20.27hrs on Sun 18 Apr 10
A good point about Wales, edog2009. The spread of snow-patch posts last year from the Highlands to the Southern Uplands and northern England raised much interest. If there are observations from Wales and for that matter Ireland, it makes a more complete story and should interest more people. The other benefit coming from Firefly's snow-patch threads is that individuals in all these areas, including the Highlands, are now paying more attention and taking more photos and notes than before, and that all of us are becoming better informed. Alan's winterhighland is doing a very good service on all this.

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