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pfairbrother


Guest
Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 12.47hrs on Tue 30 Aug 11
skijunkie Wrote:
Surely the Ciste is the biggest priority anyway....?


Priority for who? Financially, investment priorities must be to maintain and ensure existing income first. So maintaining facilities in the most popular and well used areas (Cas and top runs) is always going to be the top priority.

After these priorities are ensured then investment in maintaining facilities in other less popular areas (ie lower ciste) will be prioritised over expansion.

The Ciste 'project' cannot be seen to be the BIGGEST priority. There are many of us who look forward to seeing the Ciste and west wall chairs (or alternatives) running again but gondolas in the Ciste must be fairly low on cml and HIE's priority list.

daveski


Guest
Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 09.22hrs on Wed 31 Aug 11
DonaldM Wrote:
Daveski,

I've observed your posts on these forums and you are clearly a nice guy and knowledgeable. You are also extremely negative about most developments and ideas which I think is unmerited. Almost everything is seeded with a massive dose of caution or a desire to see problems. Or is it just me?

Get the principles right and then deal with the detail of this proposal.

DonaldM - I see your point, though maybe a touch of reality and pragmatism than negativity or maybe not. I guess it comes from working in large technolgy projects - starts off all rosy and bright then gets harder and harder as more amd more Gotcha's come out the woodwork, so I get into the habit of questioning, more from the point of view to form a better understanding of the problems that need be resolved.smiling smiley




alan


Posts: 10750
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 23:28
2nd Dec 2021
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Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 20.37hrs on Wed 31 Aug 11
According to the Audit Scotland report on the Funicular CML had assessed the the Glenmore Gondola option and sent a critique of it to HIE during the Funicular planning:

HIE accepted CMLís conclusion and used it in its business case for the funicular, stating that the alternative would offer less employment, visitor appeal and environmental protection and would create a lower quality skiing experience at greater cost. Therefore, HIE did not undertake a wider assessment of the options and consider the groupís proposal alongside CMLís proposal.


Would be very interesting to get a hold of both the original proposal and CML's 'critique' of it. I wonder if the critique was formulated on the back of the same envelope as the core lift policy?



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 20.37hrs Wed 31 Aug 11 by alan.
Chionophile


Guest
Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 15.49hrs on Thu 1 Sep 11
It is worth recalling that the voluntary conservation organisations in 1996 proposed a gondola from Glen More as a better alternative to the funicular application before Highland Council and backed by the then Cairngorm Chairlift Company (the name before it changed to CairnGorm Mountain)and HIE. The conservation bodies published a brochure "The GlenMore Gondola: a better alternative", prepared on behalf of Scottish Wildlife & Countryside Link and the Cairngorms Campaign with the support of the National Trust for Scotland and the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds.I have just been re-reading it.It's listed on Amazon, but unavailable. If you type GlenMore Gondola in Google you will see several links, including an article in the Herald of 27 November 1996, and a link to Dave Morris the Director of Ramblers Scotland calling in the last few years for a gondola. The proposal was to site a large car park down in the woods at Glen More, with a big visitor centre. The proposal involved a gondola from there to the Day Lodge at Coire Cas at all seasons.chairlifts that would run only in winter for skiers, and closure of the road from Glen More to Coire na Ciste and Coire Cas except for emergencies. The Cairngorm Chairlift Company strongly opposed the gondola proposal, and HIE followed suit. Donald Dewar as Secretary of State for Scotland backed the spending of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money by HIE for the funicular. Then there followed even bigger costs of the funicular to taxpayers and continuing costs to taxpayers. HIE has agreed to spend millions more, mostly on summer supposed attractions to tourists.The other ski companies had to put up with the unlevel playing field, especially the Glenshee Company. The idea of a gondola is still good, but one may expect strong opposition from the other ski companies if yet more millions of taxpayers' money were to be handed to HIW and Cairngorm Company for a yet more unlevel playing field!
andytb


Guest
Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 17.47hrs on Thu 1 Sep 11
I'll sit and draw lines on maps all day, the suggestion of any major brand new construction work at Cairngorm seems pretty pie in the sky until a winterhighlander wins the euromillions, so there's no harm in being a bit dreamy smiling smiley

I like not to confuse routine maintenance (ranging from weekly greasing of cranks to annual bearing reservicing), minor/periodic renewal work (motors, cables) and major capital investment. The first needs budgeted annually, the second over the expected lifespan of the equipment and the third when budgetary surpluses allow funds to build up or loans to be taken.

/Away to draw some lines all over Braerich winking smiley
happygirl


Guest
Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 23.26hrs on Fri 2 Sep 11
Glenmore Gondola? The arm chair ski area managers have not heard of global warming!!!!! the worlds heating up the snow is in retreat up the mountain. Cairngorm removed the Aonach because there has not been sufficient snow to run it in almost 10 years. How can you keep a ski a lift in service for a few days a decade or less!!!! Those campaigning against CML should realize they endanger the future of skiing on the hill if money is squandered on dangerously obsolete chairlifts. The Ciste Chair is even lower than the Aonach!!!!! It is only the sheer dedication of the hard grafting hill team that you can still enjoy the full ski area. Be grateful for what you have got and dont put it at risk. Let the pros get on with the job without the distraction of a campaign against them by a few bitter and twisted has beens and never will bes. Stay Happy. smiling smiley
andytb


Guest
Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 00.55hrs on Sat 3 Sep 11
Happygirl, be sure to give me a wave from your desk next time I ski past the Daylodge.
PeterS


Guest
Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 07.46hrs on Sat 3 Sep 11
All this new stuff going in. there must be plenty of cheap second hand stuff coming out !

[alpinwiki.alpinforum.com]
Hipennine


Guest
Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 09.45hrs on Sat 3 Sep 11
happygirl Wrote:
Glenmore Gondola? The arm chair ski area managers have not heard of global warming!!!!! the worlds heating up the snow is in retreat up the mountain. Cairngorm removed the Aonach because there has not been sufficient snow to run it in almost 10 years. How can you keep a ski a lift in service for a few days a decade or less!!!! Those campaigning against CML should realize they endanger the future of skiing on the hill if money is squandered on dangerously obsolete chairlifts. The Ciste Chair is even lower than the Aonach!!!!! It is only the sheer dedication of the hard grafting hill team that you can still enjoy the full ski area. Be grateful for what you have got and dont put it at risk. Let the pros get on with the job without the distraction of a campaign against them by a few bitter and twisted has beens and never will bes. Stay Happy.


Oh yes, real expert comment here. Of course the Ciste Chair is lower, it's an access lift gettit ? Always was it's prime purpose.

Good idea to leave it all to the "Team" that managed to follow a set of policies and strategies that led to the operation being spectacularly bankrupt, despite millions of public £'s propping it up, followed by further millions of public £'s to bail it out (and BoS writing off millions as well). And despite making a decent profit in the last two years which has been derived entirely from Snowsports (Funicular usage down), continues to spout the mantra of "investment only in all year revenue facilities".
matchstick1


Guest
Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 11.40hrs on Sat 3 Sep 11
Have to agree with Hipennine there, there's lots of hot air and nonsense spoken on Winterhighland for sure but there's hot air and nonsense spoken by other folk too, many of whom seem to say such remarkably similar things you'd think they all worked in the same place!

Get real happygirl it wasn't "arm chair ski area managers" that bankrupted CML and forced HIE to bail them out, it was so called 'professional ski area management!

Global warming has been a convenient excuse for CML but if the snow line is rising why have they removed mid-mountain lifts creating bottlenecks and not expanded upwards?

Ever heard of climate change, sun spots and a gulf stream that's moved southwards?
Hipennine


Guest
Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 12.23hrs on Sat 3 Sep 11
And by the way Happygirl, the Aonach didn't run for much of that time because there was no access to it - ie because the Ciste chair was out of commission, or no access out again - ie neither the WWC or ciste chair was in commission, and as usual the M1 was broken (track or lift). Remember the daft core lifts policy of the professional ski managers ?

When the WWC and Ciste chairs were running, there were numerous days that the Aonach ran even when both chairs were only providing access (and therefore killing those oh so customer friendly queues in the Cas).
tim1mw


Guest
Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 14.22hrs on Sat 3 Sep 11
happygirl Wrote:
Glenmore Gondola? The arm chair ski area managers have not heard of global warming!!!!! the worlds heating up the snow is in retreat up the mountain.

True, but it doesn't necessarily follow that there will be no snow in Scotland, the effects of global warming are not necessarily consistent.

Cairngorm removed the Aonach because there has not been sufficient snow to run it in almost 10 years. How can you keep a ski a lift in service for a few days a decade or less!!!! Those campaigning against CML should realize they endanger the future of skiing on the hill if money is squandered on dangerously obsolete chairlifts. The Ciste Chair is even lower than the Aonach!!!!!

The professional ski managers at Glenshee are building a new chair at the same altitude as the Aonach.

How do you justify the statement that the chairs are dangerously obsolete. Obsolete does not equal Dangerous, neither does it preclude good maintenance, parts can be made to order if necessary by a good engineering firm. There are other older chairs running in the world perfectly safely (eg Glencoe/Cliffhanger, Glenshee/Cairnwell, Mad River Glen in the US), while accidents can happen on modern installations.

happygirl Wrote:It is only the sheer dedication of the hard grafting hill team that you can still enjoy the full ski area. Be grateful for what you have got and dont put it at risk. Let the pros get on with the job without the distraction of a campaign against them by a few bitter and twisted has beens and never will bes. Stay Happy.

I would dispute your use of 'full ski area', however, I salute the hard work of the current management who I suspect are doing the best they can with the what they have. Unfortunately they have to cope with a legacy of mistakes which were made by their predecessors.
Jag


Guest
Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 19.52hrs on Sat 3 Sep 11

happygirl Wrote:
Glenmore Gondola? The arm chair ski area managers have not heard of global warming!!!!! the worlds heating up the snow is in retreat up the mountain. Cairngorm removed the Aonach because there has not been sufficient snow to run it in almost 10 years. How can you keep a ski a lift in service for a few days a decade or less!!!! Those campaigning against CML should realize they endanger the future of skiing on the hill if money is squandered on dangerously obsolete chairlifts. The Ciste Chair is even lower than the Aonach!!!!! It is only the sheer dedication of the hard grafting hill team that you can still enjoy the full ski area. Be grateful for what you have got and dont put it at risk. Let the pros get on with the job without the distraction of a campaign against them by a few bitter and twisted has beens and never will bes. Stay Happy.


Happygirl obviously has no experience whatsoever of how Cairngorm has declined so badly over the years. Either a non-skier/boarder or just new to the sport whilst working at CML methinks! Easily brainwashed and blind to the obvious!



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 19.55hrs Sat 3 Sep 11 by Jag.
JUN


Guest
Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 06.19hrs on Sun 4 Sep 11
andytb Wrote: Happygirl, be sure to give me a wave from your desk next time I ski past the Daylodge.


Judging by the "f*#k you" attitude, that desk will be located in the CML customer service dept.

Then again, global warming is a core message in the marketing dept .. tricky?!
alan


Posts: 10750
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 23:28
2nd Dec 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Glenmore Gondola
Date Posted: 12.19hrs on Wed 5 Oct 11
From the strategic snowsports review:

Nevis Range, due to the forested area around the base station, at present has most successfully diversified into year-round activities.


The Glenmore Gondola fits with the destination approach suggested for CairnGorm Mountain with integration to facilities in the wider area.

Most diversification ideas presented by the ski centres are weather dependent and will attract low volume niche markets rather than mass visitor appeal, this approach could increase the level of risk if not carefully assessed with the development potential clearly meeting the market need;


The gondola concept would not fall into that category and would have potential to substantially increase the number of non snowsport uplift customers. The report with the most accurate projection for Funicular usage estimated the usage of the Glenmore Gondola to be around 120,000 above projected funicular usage. Using the £11.17 avg non skier visitor spend from the HIE report, that's a potential £1.34m additional revenue from uplift operations, excluding any revenue gain from snowsports that results.

With the existing facilities at Glenmore, world renowned outdoor training centre in Glenmore Lodge, Loch Morlich with it's stunning beach and water sport facilities, there is the potential to create a first class destination and a unique facility in terms of Scottish Snowsports.
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