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Gorminator


Posts: 667
Joined: Jan 2011
Last Visited: 15:45
11th Aug 2019
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 17.15hrs on Thu 28 Mar 13
Mr Goldsmith. You refer to Coire an t'Sneachda as being a "Rubble Strewn Wilderness which no-one ever skis" WHAT BOLLOX !!
I've only been skiing Scotland/Europe since 1972, and now my ski-exploits have been curtailed by the presence of a fairly large stroke in Dec 2011 !

However my brain memory and knowledge is still up front, so I do know a lot about Scottish Skiing !!

In the "EPIC" Winter of 2009/10, which most seem to forget, this "Wilderness" was being skied so much that bumps were beginning to form. There was no scouring that winter, just straight falls of snow with no mild spells in between to create havoc.
A bit like what happened at the end of last season, only on a bigger scale !

Us Highland old hands have two sayings about Scottish Skiing which are totally true.... "The Wind Giveth and the Wind Taketh Away"...... If You Don't Go-You Don't Get !

Over the years there have been some incredible snow falls, which are conveniently forgotten. Do you not remember when you used to come to the Gorm, there were incredible accumulations sometimes ? Mid Station, Ptarmigan Tow, Coire Cas Tow ... all dug-out (usually with no PB's) I can remember the top 200 metres of the West Wall Chair being dug out with resulting mega-jump off the end of the resulting "trench." And further down the route under the chair being cordonned-off to avoid head and chair contact !

We set up an elaborate, but accurate form of measuring the snow in the Ciste Gully many years ago and got not far off 15 metres !

It's Scottish Skiing mate and yes it can rival/be compared with other world resorts, folk just have to get off their butts and grab it, whether it's dodging rocks in the Lady or Cas or Whooping it up in the Ciste Gully.

I've skied a lot of the big European resorts, but my best memories have been days when I have been fortunate enough to ski "wind-blasted wildernesses" that have built up an accumulation as opposed to the relatively normal few centimetres with sharks lurking underneath.

In May 1994 Glencoe resort re-opened because the top lift had been burried under the snow for some weeks ! What snow depth did your SCGB give then ?

David Goldsmith


Posts: 1283
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 08:28
6th Nov 2018
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 17.48hrs on Thu 28 Mar 13
Gorminator, good-humoured and useful points, but you significantly mis-quoted me in the first quote by adding the word "never". I just think it's pointless looking for rocks and rubble when there are fantastic snow depths on the areas that regular punters ski.

But the real point is that Coire an t'Sneachda lies outside the boundary/patrolled ski area of Cairngorm and isn't relevant to this discussion.

I have, indeed, witnessed the massive snow accumulations you mention (certainly on Cairngorm in the mid-1970s) and the 1994 drama on Glencoe. I don't think the SCGB quoted Scottish snow depths in those days - it's a much more recent development and I don't really understand what's driving it.

Someone said to me recently, which I think is a very good point, that it's the width of a Scottish ski run (arguably more than its depth) that really matters.

Also, an earlier point was made regarding the value of webcams (or videos/photos) and skier reports. The SCGB still does not link to Winterhighland, which is a way of not serving its members' best interests.

In contrast, look at the number of external sites that Winterhighland freely links to.

Happy Easter, all!



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 17.50hrs Thu 28 Mar 13 by David Goldsmith.

Hipennine


Posts: 1056
Joined: Dec 2005
Last Visited: 11:25
17th Jan 2021
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 19.19hrs on Thu 28 Mar 13
David Goldsmith Wrote:

Whether it's drifted snow, snow out of a gun, snow out of a cloud or snow spread out by a Pistenbully ... that is what these experts are saying is new snow on the main piste gullies they've specified. And that's what skiers want to know about - the new snow depths they're skiing on - not the dusting on a rock they're not skiing on.


Edited 2 times. Last edit at 14.48hrs Thu 28 Mar 13 by David Goldsmith.


Personally, and I would imagine that most would agree, the amount of new snow is not relevant, so I don't want to know about it. Maybe how deep and wide once it's pisted, condition and temperature, but not how much has been added since some previous arbitrary date.

tupp


Posts: 234
Joined: Apr 2010
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 19.48hrs on Thu 28 Mar 13

Personally, and I would imagine that most would agree, the amount of new snow is not relevant, so I don't want to know about it. Maybe how deep and wide once it's pisted, condition and temperature, but not how much has been added since some previous arbitrary date.







+1 from me. 10 pages of blah, blah, blah.

alan


Posts: 10732
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 12:55
17th Jan 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 22.49hrs on Fri 29 Mar 13
+1 from me. 10 pages of blah, blah, blah.


Some people need to keep the context of this thread in mind. The SCGB data is used elsewhere online (in sites with high search rankings) and offline, the accuracy regarding Scottish conditions has all to often been appalling in the past. To get to the point we are at this season has taken 10years!! eye rolling smiley

The situation still persists that the report format and update frequency (once a day, office hours Mon-Fri and not on public holidays) renders the reports useless to a day trip market and unfortunately it's still the case if an area was closed on Friday - the reports remain stating it was closed all weekend. It's an issue not because many Scottish regulars will go to the Ski Club for reports, but because people googling will find the SCGB or others using their data high in the result list.

tupp


Posts: 234
Joined: Apr 2010
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 08.52hrs on Sat 30 Mar 13
Alan, perhaps I have a different outlook to others. George summed it up

"If You Don't Go-You Don't Get !"

Back in the day, I used ceefax or what ever it was called. Now I come straight here and look at the webcams, read the reports and SAIS. The Winterhighland phone app is great too.
For the fist time ever, I just googled Scottish ski conditions and the SCGB was not there on the first page. The only contact I've had with the SCGB has been abroad. Going by what I saw out there*, I'll not be showing any interest in the club at all. I realise that I am lucky being in the heart of all the action up here, but if I lived down in the depths of hell (pick anywhere south of Dalwhinnie for this) I'd be using the ski resorts own reports and webcams for my primary reference. There are an abundance of sites quoting conditions it seems. If their information is incorrect and they don't want to change it or the way they collect it then it just proves how insignificant the scene up here is to them.

But as I said, I have a different outlook. Just seeing a pic of Hilly and yourself on a tiny patch of slush is enough to get me up there.

*The unfavourable comments from SCGB folk about Scotland and it's laughable skiing have put me right off. Skiing to them seemed to be all about supping beverages and moaning.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 08.55hrs Sat 30 Mar 13 by tupp.

alan


Posts: 10732
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 12:55
17th Jan 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 15.04hrs on Fri 26 Apr 13
Well things had been some what better, but today the SCGB erroneously report CairnGorm Mountain is closed and being a Friday - that will stay on the site all weekend as 'Resort Temporarily Closed'.





Edited 1 times. Last edit at 15.05hrs Fri 26 Apr 13 by alan.

Attachments: Screen shot 2013-04-26 at 15.58.40.png (89kB)  
Gorminator


Posts: 667
Joined: Jan 2011
Last Visited: 15:45
11th Aug 2019
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 15.42hrs on Fri 26 Apr 13
Sums it up really !!!

I can now say ( with a great deal of unprinted support ) what I have been wanting to say since this thread appeared on the Forum !

What an absolute bunch of Tossers!!

And that is toned-down !!

Humph !!

David Goldsmith


Posts: 1283
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 08:28
6th Nov 2018
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 08.47hrs on Sat 27 Apr 13
In fact, it should go on the record that the SCGB Scottish reports have been updated this morning, indicating that:

1. Cairngorm has 6 lifts running. Glencoe has 5 lifts running.
2. The snow reports for both centres say that "The best conditions can be found on the upper slopes". Piste quality for both mountains is given as "good".

My £65 SCGB membership gives access to 9-day snow forecasts which state that next weekend ... for Cairngorm ...



My experience of these 9-day forecasts is that they're unreliable, but let's see what pans out.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 08.50hrs Sat 27 Apr 13 by David Goldsmith.

Attachments: Cairngorm forecast for 3-5 May.JPG (40kB)  
David Goldsmith


Posts: 1283
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 08:28
6th Nov 2018
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 12.52hrs on Fri 3 May 13
well ... after a sign that SCGB reports were a bit more on the ball last weekend ... all Scottish data has now been removed from the website, so there is no indication that skiing on Cairngorm and Glencoe is scheduled for the Bank Holiday weekend ...

[www.skiclub.co.uk]

The listing includes southern hemisphere ski resorts (Australia, NZ, Chile etc) that generally won't be open for at least a month, and therefore won't have any skiing until then, but Scotland continues to offer plenty of skiing.

This seems to be a near-repeat of exactly a year ago. See the opening post of this thread, on page 1 ... quoting ...

"On 3 May 2012 (May proved to be the best month of 2011-12 for skiing on Cairngorm) the Club said there was 45cm of snow on the upper slopes, with the mountain “temporarily closed” (5 lifts were running). On preceding days the SAIS had cut 270cm and 280cm snow pits on the mountain. The Club then ceased reporting the snow on Cairngorm for the rest of May, leaving skiers to rely on other information sources."

I've requested numerous times for the SCGB site to link to Winterhighland and the webcams, and you'd think that the 31 staff employed by the Club's HQ in Wimbledon could turn out a few paragraphs on the skiing still obtainable in Great Britain in the 2012-3 winter.

This is pathetic, and further evidence that the SCGB (which I pay a subscription to support) is essentially obsolete. Unfit to serve British skiers, with a membership that comprises only 2.5% of the UK ski population.

awaytouring


Posts: 53
Joined: Nov 2004
Last Visited: 16:06
25th Jan 2020
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 15.36hrs on Fri 3 May 13
David, whilst I agree with your sentiments about SCGB, if it bothers you so much why do you continue to pay your subscriptions? If you feel it is obsolete and unable to serve you why not save yourself £65 per year or better still give it to charity?

Gorminator


Posts: 667
Joined: Jan 2011
Last Visited: 15:45
11th Aug 2019
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 16.29hrs on Fri 3 May 13
Totally agree with away touring !

David, why don't you get yourself a dog. It doesn't have to be big. Maybe you can take it for walks to pass the time when you bin any association you might have with the SCofGB ! If I was a member of an organisation like that I would have clunked a few heads by now. Seems a bit like various divisions of our government - folk sitting at desks being non-productive and twiddling their thumbs !

Gorminator


Posts: 667
Joined: Jan 2011
Last Visited: 15:45
11th Aug 2019
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 20.19hrs on Fri 3 May 13
Got a phone-call at ten to Nine from a concerned fellow-skier.

On the Ski-Club Hut Webcam he had seen a skier heading up the White-Lady past the old tow hut.

Was it David heading up to dig his own snow depth pit now that hopefully he has done the descent thing and binned the SCofGB. Next years subscription spent on a rail fare from Endland to ALBA.


Or was it the tunnel-digging nightshift !

Pippin


Posts: 21
Joined: Jun 2013
Last Visited: 14:23
3rd Mar 2019
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 15.42hrs on Mon 10 Jun 13
jabuzzard Wrote:
skir67 Wrote:
The information gathering is done by a small team at the SCGB office. They get the information from the resorts themselves and the leader in the resorts where they have them. The leaders are not reponsible for any of the snow depth information, that comes from the resort. The leaders report on the weather of the day and their interpretation of the snow conditions on and off piste.

You can believe what you want. I however will go on what I have seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. Specifically the SCGB rep has a daily snow report to return which certainly in the past included snow depths. They are supposed to make their own which I have personally seen being done. I have also personally seen the rep look at what the resort is saying and just using that figure.

It's a few years now since I last skied with a rep (as opposed to a Ski Freshtracks holiday leader) but as far as I am aware it has not changed.

The important thing however is to remember when interpreting the snow depth numbers is that refer only to the groomed pistes and nothing else.


ONlY bothered to register because I wanted to tell you you're completely wrong. Ski Club Leaders have never been asked to measure snow depths. That's 'never' as in for at least the last 50-years.

Seems like you observed something and then lept to a conclusion.

David Goldsmith


Posts: 1283
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 08:28
6th Nov 2018
Re: An open letter to the new CEO of the Ski Club of GB
Date Posted: 17.23hrs on Mon 10 Jun 13
Pippin, why define "never" as the past 50 years? The SCGB has existed for 110 years. You say that the Club's reps/leaders have never been asked to measure snow depths. How do you know that? In its formative and golden years - when the organisation had standards and researched stuff independently - I imagine that it verified many things ... including snow depths ... before publishing.

If the Club doesn't measure snow depths, on what basis does it report snow depths? This thread has run to 10 pages, because there has been no clarification from the SCGB as to how this data is obtained ... just ongoing obfuscation and confusion.

Here's what the Ski Club of Great Britain says officially:

"What makes the Ski Club’s snow reports different is that it’s not just automated data from the resorts – we have a team that gathers and checks the information every day. This is how we can deliver unbiased and accurate snow reports to you."
Alyn Morgan, SCGB Information Manager, SCGB Snowcast, 26 Nov 2010

If it's not taken automatically from the resorts, where does it come from and what's it checked against?

"The Ski Club’s snow reports are the best online ..."
Current statement on skiclub.co.uk

"The most accurate and up to date snow reports around"
Current statement on skiclub.co.uk

If the snow depth reports are the "best online", "the most accurate", "unbiased" etc., then where do they come from?

Regarding Scotland, where the Club has no representation ...

"Regarding depths, then there are no official depths available from the Scottish resorts so we aim to report representative depths as it states in our site. We do this through various means including talking to skiers in Scotland as well as people within the ski industry who are in Scotland."
Alyn Morgan, SCGB Information Manager, Facebook, 3 May 2012


So, where do the Scottish snow depth figures come from? Who measures them? There's been nothing from the SCGB to explain this since this thread began! It all seems to be big claims, based on nothing.

[I write as a SCGB member who first joined in 1962]




Edited 1 times. Last edit at 18.15hrs Mon 10 Jun 13 by David Goldsmith.

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