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alan


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27th Mar 2024
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HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 20.07hrs on Mon 20 Jan 14
HIE (Highlands and Islands Enterprise) has submitted a planning application for demolition of the Coire na Ciste base building (including former Cafe, Ciste Ticket Office and Toilets), retaining an enclosure for a Hydro Electric transformer.

The Application has been called in by the Cairngorms National Park Authority. Full details are available on the CNPA e-planning website and public comments can also be made online.



CNPA ref: 2013/0398/DET
Council ref: 13/04588/FUL

Applicant: Highlands And Islands Enterprise

Development location: Cairngorm Mountain, Glenmore, Aviemore PH22 1RB

Proposal:

Reconfiguration of existing building to strip back to transformer
enclosure area only. Recladding and re-roofing of enclosure
Application type: Detailed Planning Permission

Planning History:

There have been numerous previous planning applications in this
area, some of which were called in and determined by the CNPA.
Background Analysis:

Call in decision: CALLED IN


A decision is required by Sat 8th Feb 2014. Public comments can be made through the CNPA e-planning site at: [www.eplanningcnpa.co.uk] .

We were told that the mountain bike plans for the Ciste were on hold because of the CML tendering process. Yet before public completion of this process and anouncement of the new operator (if there is to be one), HIE is prejudicing any future use a new operator may wish to make of the facilities in Coire na Ciste.

I will be objecting to this application on the basis that the lack of basic facilities in Coire na Ciste is unacceptable and that far from being demolished there is an urgent need to reinstate at least toilet provision within this building. Also because it seriously undermines any potential future provision of uplift from the Coire na Ciste carpark.

Concurrently CML has submitted a separate planning application for the construction of a stone 'Grouse Butt' in the Coire na Ciste carpark to provide a viewing location for a Black Grouse lek and to shelter interpretative information. It will be used also as part of ranger guided walks around the lower Ciste by CML and the RSPB.

The provision of a new visitor feature to attract more users into Coire na Ciste is not compatible with lack of any basic visitor facilities and I will be commenting on this planning application such that it should be conditional on the provision of toilet facilities in Coire na Ciste.
jabuzzard


Posts: 885
Joined: Jan 2010
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16th Apr 2021
Re: HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 20.36hrs on Mon 20 Jan 14
The problem is that you can in theory only object on "planning" grounds, and while it is utterly scandalous that they are trying to knock it down, the objection is not really on planning grounds. Let's face it the toilets are not open and have not been open for years.

Complaints to your local councillor, MSP and MP are probably better routes to try and stop it.

That they are trying to knock something down while a tendering process is underway probably is in contravention of all sorts of rules. A judicial review would be another way to block the application, but these cost money.

That said it is a planning application, even if granted it might never happen. Though it looks like there is someone in HIE and almost certainly not an elected official who want's rid of skiing in the Ciste at the very least.

All very depressing.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 20.44hrs Mon 20 Jan 14 by jabuzzard.
some frustrated skier


Posts: 236
Joined: Mar 2003
Last Visited: 21:55
16th Feb 2021
Re: HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 21.03hrs on Mon 20 Jan 14
From my reckoning, have HIE actually brought anything positive to operations at Cairngorm?

Where is the investment that was mentioned when they took over control?

All they seemedto have done is cream off any profits and give the guys a shoestring budget for any improvements?

How much did the new winchcat cost?
footprint


Posts: 14
Joined: Sep 2011
Last Visited: 15:27
8th Mar 2017
Re: HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 21.06hrs on Mon 20 Jan 14
jabuzzard Wrote:
The problem is that you can in theory only object on "planning" grounds,



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 20.44hrs Mon 20 Jan 14 by jabuzzard.


Yes the webmaster shows a lack of understanding regards to planning procedure as well as a disappointing lack of neutrality for a person in his position.

The application is a foregone conclusion as it involves the reduction of visual impact and removal of an absolute eyesore to the maximum extent possible. Sole reason for call in will be to ensure ground reinstatement works are appropriate. The building is beyond use. It is completely derelict and in such a severe environment presents a potentially increasing safety risk to the public in adverse weather as it becomes increasingly structurally unsound. As for toilets the sewage system in place would be utterly unacceptable as it is basically a giant septic tank draining directly into the Allt na Ciste.

JohnM


Posts: 215
Joined: Oct 2005
Last Visited: 11:35
2nd Apr 2021
Re: HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 22.11hrs on Mon 20 Jan 14
Also, as far as I have seen, this little gem appears to have gone unnoticed by this forum so far....

[www.7narchitects.com]
JohnM


Posts: 215
Joined: Oct 2005
Last Visited: 11:35
2nd Apr 2021
Re: HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 22.16hrs on Mon 20 Jan 14
I recall a few years ago, there was a power shutdown on the mountain to enable diversion/maintenance works by SSE in the Ciste. I was under the impression that this effectively permanently severed power to the Ciste buildings, and the Ciste/WW chairs.. true or not?
alan


Posts: 10768
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27th Mar 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 22.27hrs on Mon 20 Jan 14
The artists impression of the proposed splitting of the Base Building for the mountain bike development has been discussed before. The existing upper level would be removed, and the materials reused as far as possible in constructing an new adjacent single storey cafe building - so as to have 2 single storey buildings.

The Ciste Building and Ciste Chair still have power, that transformer feeds a secondary sub-station at the West Wall Poma. What was disconnected was the former sub-station at the Aonach Poma base. The West Wall Chairlift drive is feed from the sub-station in 'Base 4' the building by the bottom of the Ciste T-bar, the power for it comes down from the Ptarmigan Station rather than up Coire na Ciste.
Olderalan


Posts: 1510
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7th Apr 2019
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Re: HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 10.56hrs on Tue 21 Jan 14
A sad day for Cairngorm and Scottish snow-sports. With a strategy of business contraction then it's difficult to see how revenues can reach the levels that would be necessary to produce the profits required for new/replacement uplift. Perhaps it's the case that there is no real intention to modernise the uplift and we'll just continue to have the managed decline that's been so evident now for over a decade.
This is coming just at a point in time when the Scottish Government are waking up to the idea that the snow-sports areas have an important role to play. There is a real possibility that [some of]the fantasy lifts being discussed on other threads could become a reality in the near future...keep the ideas coming guys and keep the faith.

Kind regards

Olderalan
kevinboyle82


Posts: 117
Joined: Jan 2009
Last Visited: 14:25
6th Jun 2016
Re: HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 11.34hrs on Tue 21 Jan 14
Yet another reason why I won't be making the trip up the A9 again.
David Goldsmith


Posts: 1283
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 08:28
6th Nov 2018
Re: HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 11.55hrs on Tue 21 Jan 14
It's time for the historians to comment.

There was a reason that a bunch of people had a vision in the late 1950s and early 1960s, which extended to hiring an architect to build ... Aviemore Centre (but let's not mention that, or the architect).

If this latest act of demolition is to have a reason, then I agree that it would be nice to know of the vision. Aviemore itself could also use a bit of vision, based on my last visit (thank god for the Doo Below).

Who believes in the future of skiing on Cairngorm right now, and who is willing to finance some significant uplift to cater for the number of tickets sold? Customer satisfaction, on a mountain that's so so popular on a good day, is a great foundation block for the future.

Let's hear from the visionaries (and the historians).


handyman


Posts: 131
Joined: Nov 2003
Re: HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 13.31hrs on Tue 21 Jan 14
As someone who was present at the opening of the Ciste Base Station etc, it is sad and disappointing that it has come to this.

I suspect Cairngorm Mountain could not cope with anything like the numbers frequenting the slopes in the halcyon days of the 60's and 70's.

Sitting in the upstairs restaurant of the Sheiling with tartan clad staff (mini skirt days) in attendance whilst having a meal and a pint while watching skiers come down the White Lady at Easter, accompanied by the loud whine from the White Lady T-bar, is also no longer possible.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 13.32hrs Tue 21 Jan 14 by handyman.
alan


Posts: 10768
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27th Mar 2024
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Re: HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 00.39hrs on Thu 23 Jan 14
Been sorting out a problem with our .com domain registration and fixing webcam issues caused by this today - so not had time to post about this till now.

This application was closed to public comments yesterday (the day after this thread went live). I'm unsure whether that is the normal period up or not, but given the publicity over the grouse butt - I have made numerous searches of the Highland Council's e-planning site over the past couple of weeks and am fairly sure the demolition application only appeared in the last few days.

The application was submitted prior to the councils festive break, so the clock would have been ticking through the festive period - how convenient?
Andy


Posts: 1406
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2nd May 2019
Re: HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 12.52hrs on Thu 23 Jan 14
Is the intention to demolish this base station in order to build another one and have the chairs for mtb and skiing etc? ...or is it yet another step in the managed decline of the ski area?.


alan


Posts: 10768
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Last Visited: 17:02
27th Mar 2024
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Re: HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 13.41hrs on Thu 23 Jan 14
The plans submitted show the demolition of the existing building and re-roofing of the transformer pit, with the banks then regraded to cover the area of the existing buildings founds.

The plans that were circulating for the MTB redevelopment retained the existing building's lower level, but removed the upper level and re-used the materials as far as possible to re-create the Cafe as a separate adjacent single storey building. You can not refurbish a demolished building - so it would appear that unless MI5 have the plans that the whole MTB thing has been buried by HIE.

Doug_Bryce


Posts: 1373
Joined: Jan 2003
Re: HIE: Planning Application for DEMOLITION of Ciste Basestation
Date Posted: 13.43hrs on Thu 23 Jan 14
When was the last time the Ciste base station buildings were regularly used ? I reckon circa 1999 ? Which is some 15 years ago! (i.e shortly before all eggs were put into the funicular basket).

This isn't exactly a new story.
From pictures below the buildings do look fit for demolition...

[www.eplanningcnpa.co.uk]


Being pragmatic I have no problem with keeping the mountain environment tidy.
The more important question is if / when / how they might eventually be replaced ?



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 13.47hrs Thu 23 Jan 14 by Doug_Bryce.
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