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oversteer


Posts: 242
Joined: Jan 2008
Last Visited: 19:01
11th Mar 2024
Core Lifts
Date Posted: 12.27hrs on Sat 10 May 14
As a "Glenshee skier" I watched with bemusement and sympathy as Cairngorm had lifts removed, decommissioned and destroyed.

Sure at Glenshee we lost the Trainer Tow but the loss was no more than poignant and romantic; Claybokie was far more practical in many ways, not least because of the snow making. Lest we forget the snow making was a real coup in those days.

Since then, Glenshee have decided to remove a number of lifts:

Grianan - removed and used for spares (but threaded rod idiotically left sticking out the concrete blocks)
Courrour - removed and left to rot for years. Latterly used for spares
Tiger T Bar - removed because people allegedly couldn't use it. Seems hard to believe as most people that can't ski head to Glas Maol! In any case, it was downgraded to a button lift so very hard to believe that users found it overly challenging.
Meall Odhar T Bar - left to rot amid false rumours that it wasn't in good condition. This rumour was blown into the powder when Caenloachan suffered it's first collapse and the T Bar saved blushes in the boardroom. Finally removed this year.

The lifts that are left are mostly in a real mess; towers have failed, bull wheels are reported to have dropped, hangers are few and far between with poma gaps increased to disguise the shortfall.

With some lifts facing immediate threat of "write-off" I now wonder if Glenshee should reduce the uplift until it's in a better place mechanically/electrically/structurally. Indeed have they started with Meall Odhar T Bar rumoured to be re-sited with non-Diesel engine?

I've argued for years that they need to prioritise key lift replacement (to protect income/reputation and generate enthusiasm) and then move to snow making (to lengthen the season/increase revenue). I stand firm in my accusation that the last two piste basher purchases were reckless and came at the expense of maintaining ski lifts.

With CML having better quality lifts they've been able to spend on snow making and pisters and could surely restore the Ciste with profit from a few good seasons?

My Glenshee smugness is rapidly diminishing and if the Ciste is ever restored to it's two-chair glory they'll surely have won the war.

Of course if Glenshee could get some state funding...

Discuss.






PeterS


Posts: 980
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 12:21
13th Mar 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Core Lifts
Date Posted: 13.29hrs on Sat 10 May 14
I thought Grianan was sold to Lecht and is now the Eagle 2?

The lifts that are left were running just fine when I was there in March. Pylons have been replaced on Sunnyside and Glenshee are wizards at fixing problems quickly. Their strategy has been very successful in my view. The new piste bashers have transformed the quality of the runs and enabled them to respond quickly to this years heavy snowfalls. Their resilience has been proved with very few days lost and usually plenty of lifts running and queues easily avoided. By not gambling on expensive new lifts they been able to make improvements where they have mattered ie Piste preparation and fencing. Given adequate income there is no reason why they can't keep their existing lifts running indefinitely. The Sunnyside pomas must be 40 years old and probably the most heavily used lifts but with maintenance they just keep on running.

Keeping costs and debts down, delivering reliable skiing in all weathers, maintaining lots of uplift capacity and focusing on the stuff that improves the skiing experience seems to have worked.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 18.15hrs Sat 10 May 14 by PeterS.
moffatross


Posts: 1525
Joined: Mar 2006
Re: Core Lifts
Date Posted: 13.39hrs on Sat 10 May 14
PeterS Wrote:
"... maintaining lots of uplift capacity and focusing on the stuff that improves the skiing experience ..."


Yep, that's what Glencoe, Glenshee, Nevis Range and Lecht do. Hmmm ... tongue sticking out smiley
glenogle


Posts: 486
Joined: Feb 2008
Last Visited: 23:25
1st Jun 2018
Re: Core Lifts
Date Posted: 14.50hrs on Sat 10 May 14
Imo, the piste bashers are what give the snow condition nearest to what the european traveller expects. Lumpy snow is fun, but smooth pistes are what keep the groups and families coming back. Once you have the custom returning you can then improve the uplift experience.
Doug_Bryce


Posts: 1373
Joined: Jan 2003
Re: Core Lifts
Date Posted: 16.46hrs on Sat 10 May 14
Vintage winterhighland moan winking smiley

I think Tiger T-Bar was removed for safety / insurance reasons ? They had a couple of serious accidents and also a legal case ? The steep tow track was pretty dangerous when icy.

Grianan and Corrour were no big loss - dull beginner lifts that never held the snow and rarely operated. As mentioned above Grinan made its way to Lecht and I think Corrour became spare parts ?

I heard the 1957 Meall Odhar T-bar is currently on its way to replace Butcharts (which is kaput). Shame to see one of the oldest lifts in Scotland move location - but it seems to be being put to good use ?
cammyammy


Posts: 1362
Joined: Jul 2010
Last Visited: 21:43
8th Dec 2014
Re: Core Lifts
Date Posted: 16.52hrs on Sat 10 May 14
The lifts are fine. The major failures of lifts in the last couple of years have been operator failure rather than mechanical, which subsequently resulted in P45's. The towers are built to hold up rope with immense vertical load. When pomas stack up like on Butcharts last year the resultant horizontal force is what caused the tower to collapse. Very similar conditions are what led to the CF Poma return wheel falling (though to be fair the high winds at the time did contribute). Could have happened anywhere. Also worth noting that both were resolved in a matter of days.

As for the loss of some lifts; they took the decision to remove them in an effort to try and streamline the business during hard times. And did so without reducing available terrain at all and if we're honest very little additional queuing. I'm told the Meal Odhar T-bar doesn't have a clutch or a modern cutout system, which is why it never ran.

They could do with some new generators though, quite a few power cuts this year.

You can slate their efforts all you want but I think they do a good job. The increased quality of the pistes and catering is what will encourage more folk back than lifts that never break down, which in this country is commonly down to user failure or high winds tripping sensors. Mechanical failure is not as common as you might think.


PeterS


Posts: 980
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 12:21
13th Mar 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Core Lifts
Date Posted: 18.22hrs on Sat 10 May 14
Cammy, spot on.

The miracle is that lifts run at all in the UK climate. Is there a ski lift anywhere in these islands that hasnt broken down or been prevented from running at some time ?
Dunc


Posts: 330
Joined: Nov 2004
Last Visited: 09:47
18th Mar 2021
Re: Core Lifts
Date Posted: 18.58hrs on Sat 10 May 14
cammyammy Wrote:
The lifts are fine. The major failures of lifts in the last couple of years have been operator failure rather than mechanical, which subsequently resulted in P45's. The towers are built to hold up rope with immense vertical load. When pomas stack up like on Butcharts last year the resultant horizontal force is what caused the tower to collapse. Very similar conditions are what led to the CF Poma return wheel falling (though to be fair the high winds at the time did contribute). Could have happened anywhere. Also worth noting that both were resolved in a matter of days.


Is it just me that thinks a falling return wheel or collapsing tower is a really serious thing with the potential to kill someone? I've heard of this happening a few times at Scottish ski centres and it's really played down by ski patrol / lifties / fellow skiers. It's as if they don't think of it as serious at all, just something that will happen from time to time. Am I genuinely missing something? Is it really not a big deal, and if so can someone explain why? Thanks.
EhanBlake


Posts: 23
Joined: Dec 2012
Re: Core Lifts
Date Posted: 19.27hrs on Sat 10 May 14
If you think about it you usually dismount the lift before the return wheel and tend not to wonder below the wheel anyway. I don't understand why it's being played down though because there is still the potential for injury.
Dunc


Posts: 330
Joined: Nov 2004
Last Visited: 09:47
18th Mar 2021
Re: Core Lifts
Date Posted: 20.34hrs on Sat 10 May 14
EhanBlake Wrote:
If you think about it you usually dismount the lift before the return wheel and tend not to wonder below the wheel anyway. I don't understand why it's being played down though because there is still the potential for injury.


True, but I think a cable landing on yer heid could kill you.
EhanBlake


Posts: 23
Joined: Dec 2012
Re: Core Lifts
Date Posted: 23.14hrs on Sat 10 May 14
Dunc Wrote:

True, but I think a cable landing on yer heid could kill you.


That's where a helmet could come in handy winking smiley
Gorminator


Posts: 667
Joined: Jan 2011
Last Visited: 15:45
11th Aug 2019
Re: Core Lifts
Date Posted: 09.46hrs on Sun 11 May 14
I am sure if any of the other resorts are wanting any lifts taken down they will approach Cairngorm Mountain !

After all they have a proven destruction squad available !! Who knows...they might even take their own burning gear with them !!


tim1mw


Posts: 700
Joined: Nov 2006
Re: Core Lifts
Date Posted: 15.04hrs on Sun 11 May 14
Doug_Bryce Wrote:
I think Tiger T-Bar was removed for safety / insurance reasons ? They had a couple of serious accidents and also a legal case ? The steep tow track was pretty dangerous when icy.


I only rode the Tiger Tow on a few occasions in the 90's, but as a Black Run capable skier I found it to be hard work. The tow track was un-pisted and icy, so you really had to hang on to get up it without falling off.

Regarding New Piste Basher vs New Lifts, I think there is a balance which needs to be struck. A well maintained drag lift or fixed grip chair will be safe and operable for a very long period because it is mechanically very simple, a poorly maintained new lift could easily fail within a few years. So I don't see full lift replacement as necessary, my only concern would be if I felt that maintenance wasn't up to scratch. Personally I would like to see more of the pylons being cleaned up and painted, rusty pylons give the impression that things are worse than they really are when in fact the infrastructure is sound.

PB's are very complex pieces of kit and I suspect the cost of maintaining the elderly fleet at GS is an ever increasing burden, which was proportionally greater than the cost of maintaining old lifts. I suspect that they judged that the impact of loosing a PB (or two) was greater in terms of revenue than that of loosing a lift. Finally, new PBs don't need planning permission, anything other than direct like for like replacement of a lift does.
alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 17:02
27th Mar 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Core Lifts
Date Posted: 17.50hrs on Sun 11 May 14
The Meall Odhar Poma simply doesn't have enough towers for the lift line and parts of the line can be buried will long sections don't have enough depth under it. A consequence of running it with marginal depth is increased trips and actual derailments.

Frankly, the Caenlochan Poma's reliability seems almost as flaky as the rust on the towers. While there are nice plans for a Meall Odhar Chairlift - leaving access to the most popular part of the area dependent on these two pretty low capacity Pomas does seem to be tempting fate rather. Butchart's T-bar is hardly a make or break deal for many, while access to Coire Fionn and Glas Maol is. Though that does need to be tempered with the fact that Butchart's T-bar can be the difference between having some lift served sliding and having none.
mannys1210


Posts: 25
Joined: Jan 2009
Last Visited: 14:50
10th Aug 2019
Re: Core Lifts
Date Posted: 20.58hrs on Sun 11 May 14
Personally I'd much rather see Meall Odhar T bar restored and go back where it is. Caenlochan usually has massive queues on it with people using it for access to Glas Maol and IMO is one of the best runs at Glenshee. Butchards T bar can still be skied from either the butchards poma or Carn Aosda.

As far as Courrour is concerned how many people here have skied a lovely run down the home run only to be faced with a massive queue at Tom Derg? If only there was another option?

Tiger chairlift, I absolutley love the sound of that but only if they actually run it. How often does the current one run? Not very often, and I appreciate they often have good reason not to but that ain't likey to change if they get a new one so surely it would be better to put a chairlift into Coire Fionn?


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