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ColinTheCop


Posts: 525
Joined: Mar 2007
Last Visited: 18:44
16th Jul 2019
Where there's blame, there's a...?
Date Posted: 20.49hrs on Wed 11 Jun 14
This could have a bit of a costly implication if the ambulance chasing law firm win...


[www.bbc.co.uk]



JanA


Posts: 233
Joined: Jan 2008
Last Visited: 15:03
10th Apr 2017
Re: Where there's blame, there's a...?
Date Posted: 21.12hrs on Wed 11 Jun 14
Good grief sad smiley "proper piste grooming was not done". Watch out for the naughty mogul fairy too...

alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 17:02
27th Mar 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Where there's blame, there's a...?
Date Posted: 21.24hrs on Wed 11 Jun 14
I'm not aware of any such claim being successful in the Scottish Courts. A line from a previous ruling that has cropped up in similar outdoor activity related actions is:

It is, however, clear that the duty imposed upon an occupier does not extend to providing protection against obvious and natural features of the landscape.


If anyone fancies some light reading: [www.scotcourts.gov.uk]

This sort of thing is another reason for the Land Reform Act's access rights and responsibilities application to the snowsports areas not to be questioned. CML should be no more responsible for the actions of someone sliding down the mountain than Stagecoach would be had they travelled up by bus.
firefly


Posts: 2149
Joined: May 2006
Re: Where there's blame, there's a...?
Date Posted: 22.28hrs on Wed 11 Jun 14
And in any event, it's only a sheriff court (i.e. doesn't set a precedent). I'd be surprised if he's successful, based on the broad-brushed reporting.
gunni


Posts: 298
Joined: Jan 2006
Last Visited: 16:46
28th Dec 2018
Re: Where there's blame, there's a...?
Date Posted: 18.16hrs on Fri 13 Jun 14
By buying a lift pass you are agreeing to abide by the FIS code of conduct which states -
"Control of speed and skiing or snowboarding
A skier or snowboarder must move in control. He must adapt his speed
and manner of skiing or snowboarding to his personal ability and to the
prevailing conditions of terrain, snow and weather as well as to the density
of traffic."

If he had been abiding by this surely he wouldn't have injured himself would he?

Absolute chancer I sincerely hope he doesn't see a penny from this.

Gorminator


Posts: 667
Joined: Jan 2011
Last Visited: 15:45
11th Aug 2019
Re: Where there's blame, there's a...?
Date Posted: 19.27hrs on Fri 13 Jun 14
The best comments for him are on WTF on Facebook ! Totally destroyed !!

As he should be !

I fell in 1966 near what is now the Car Park T-Bar track...can I claim ?
h11lly


Posts: 2150
Joined: Dec 2002
Last Visited: 18:38
2nd Sep 2019
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Where there's blame, there's a...?
Date Posted: 19.34hrs on Fri 13 Jun 14
Sickened to read about this.

I've never much liked the Gaelic signs but maybe they could be used to send him packing with his tail between his legs and hopefully the legal fees to pay !

The blue M2 one says the same as the inlayed green one!



Helen
Olderalan


Posts: 1510
Joined: Feb 2006
Last Visited: 15:23
7th Apr 2019
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Where there's blame, there's a...?
Date Posted: 19.41hrs on Fri 13 Jun 14
I had a fall near the top of the Cas T-Bar back around 1978. It was boiler plate all round...doubt it would be open today under the same conditions....but, I was happy to accept the risk and paid the price. A staved thumb and a bruised hip resulted. Maybe I should put in a claim too?...lol
Mind you, a similar fall now might result in a broken hip as I'm getting on a bit...but that's why I wouldn't try to ski the same conditions nowadays.
This numpty deserves all the brickbats that are coming his way....and it's to be hoped hat he gets nothing out of it [other than a legal bill]


Kind regards

Olderalan
Doug_Bryce


Posts: 1373
Joined: Jan 2003
Re: Where there's blame, there's a...?
Date Posted: 21.19hrs on Fri 13 Jun 14
Scottish resorts get taken to court after accidents more often that you would think...

- Glencoe, after someone broke their cheek bone on a t-bar
- Nevis Range, after someone fell off the chancer cornice
- Glenshee, after someone fell down the old tiger t-bar
- Cairngorm, after skier falls on M2
<etc>

Generally such cases are settled out of court or don't win. However it has to be a big concern for the ski centres given the potential for large payouts in event of any accident? AFAIK the old tiger t-bar was removed on the recomendation of HSE and the insurance company.

Public liabilty insurance used to be one of Glencoes biggest overheards (sometimes up to 10-20% of their turnover depending on skier numbers). Its no wonder the ski centres struggle to makes ends meet ?
JohnM


Posts: 215
Joined: Oct 2005
Last Visited: 11:35
2nd Apr 2021
Re: Where there's blame, there's a...?
Date Posted: 23.55hrs on Fri 13 Jun 14
How are such claims handled in the alps I wonder?
David Goldsmith


Posts: 1283
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 08:28
6th Nov 2018
Re: Where there's blame, there's a...?
Date Posted: 10.07hrs on Sat 14 Jun 14
It's also worth looking at how this type of litigation occurs in America, and the background to it.

There was a landmark case in 1977 - Sunday -v- Stratton - when James Sunday, a 27-year-old beginner, sued the Vermont resort of Stratton Mountain. His ski had tripped on a bush in the snow, he was flung on to a rock and he was paralysed. He was awarded $1.5 million by the jury.

After that case US ski resorts were repeatedly sued until individual states passed 'skier safety acts' which heavily indemnified ski resorts from accident litigation. There's a distinction, of course, between (and these are just examples) (a) natural hazards such as ice, rocks, holes, that the ski patrol may, or may not, have a duty to warn about (b) normal fixed obstacles on ski mountains such as snowfences, snow cannon and lift towers (and the linked issue as to whether there's a duty to pad them) (c) machinery moved around the mountain, such as snowmobiles and piste-grooming machines.

I worked for about 10 years as an expert witness in ski accident cases, including a big one at Sydney Supreme Court in Australia concerning a British skier paralysed from a fall at Thredbo. That case involved ice, a slope with quite steep transverse gradients and an issue as to whether a run should have been open or closed (note how often this arises with the Ciste Gully on Cairngorm these days). It's generally relevant in these cases to look at (because there is always the angle of contributory negligence by the skier, as well as anything else) how well the skier was prepared for a day which might include visibility problems, typical challenges of turning ability, avoidance, speed control (how much ski instruction had the skier taken etc.) and so on.

All in all, it's for the public and politicians to decide what is reasonable in law. What level of indemnity should Scottish ski resorts enjoy from this type of litigation?

This page from the prominent US ski lawyers Chalat Hatten Koupal & Banker is a good one to look at, because it's biased towards their business interests and hints at what they see as the loopholes in quite tightly controlled law ...

[skisafety.com]



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 10.30hrs Sat 14 Jun 14 by David Goldsmith.
David Goldsmith


Posts: 1283
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 08:28
6th Nov 2018
Re: Where there's blame, there's a...?
Date Posted: 10.14hrs on Sat 14 Jun 14
And here's a more neutral article about skiing and litigation in America, published in 2010 by ESPN, by Matt Higgins ...

[sports.espn.go.com]
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