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DonaldM


Posts: 871
Joined: Jan 2009
Last Visited: 20:58
10th Aug 2019
Re: Yae or Nae what will be best for Scottish Skiing
Date Posted: 09.13hrs on Thu 2 Oct 14
No I think he is saying that if someone who thinks Scotland should be independent is a Scottish Nationalist, then it follows that someone who thinks Britain should be independent in the same way i.e. sovereign, is a British Nationalist.
WeeSam


Posts: 110
Joined: Sep 2014
Last Visited: 00:53
5th Apr 2021
Re: Yae or Nae what will be best for Scottish Skiing
Date Posted: 11.13hrs on Thu 2 Oct 14
alan Wrote:
Quote:Its over. Get used to it.

Really? So that's why you registered to a mountain sports forum and made your first two posts on the constitution - because the debate is over?


I was a member a long time ago for many years - moved abroad. Came home, couldn't remember my login password and your system would not re-send it (maybe you could PM it and I would be happy to use my old login).

BTW Debate is NEVER over. Don't put words in my mouth. The question was asked of the people of Scotland and they answered. The referendum is over.

You never got what you want. Its now more than a whine than a debate.
WeeSam


Posts: 110
Joined: Sep 2014
Last Visited: 00:53
5th Apr 2021
Re: Yae or Nae what will be best for Scottish Skiing
Date Posted: 11.17hrs on Thu 2 Oct 14
DonaldM Wrote:
No I think he is saying that if someone who thinks Scotland should be independent is a Scottish Nationalist, then it follows that someone who thinks Britain should be independent in the same way i.e. sovereign, is a British Nationalist.



Somebody can choose to be a British Citizen and NOT be a British Nationalist (in the sense of being politically Nationalist). Thousands of new citizens every year choose to be British Citizens - I don't know how many are Nationalists.

A majority of the people of Scotland (who could be bothered to answer) chose to remain British citizens. You can make of that what you will.
growwild


Posts: 3550
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: Yae or Nae what will be best for Scottish Skiing
Date Posted: 11.43hrs on Thu 2 Oct 14
The slight majority choose to be a subject of the crown, the rest that turned up wanted to be sovereign....


I welcome people that have choosen to be brit subject for social and economic reasons, u can be sure their country of birth is in a mess cause of the brit foreign policy...

Others have the cresta run, BAE could sponsor a bombing run at a resort.. Since last Friday popcorn sales went through the roof and I think there is a market to be tapped there....

Thersea May could delete this thread if the orks are annoyed?
DonaldM


Posts: 871
Joined: Jan 2009
Last Visited: 20:58
10th Aug 2019
Re: Yae or Nae what will be best for Scottish Skiing
Date Posted: 14.26hrs on Thu 2 Oct 14
WeeSam Wrote:
DonaldM Wrote:
No I think he is saying that if someone who thinks Scotland should be independent is a Scottish Nationalist, then it follows that someone who thinks Britain should be independent in the same way i.e. sovereign, is a British Nationalist.


Somebody can choose to be a British Citizen and NOT be a British Nationalist (in the sense of being politically Nationalist). Thousands of new citizens every year choose to be British Citizens - I don't know how many are Nationalists.

A majority of the people of Scotland (who could be bothered to answer) chose to remain British citizens. You can make of that what you will.


You are correct but that is not what I was referring to.

People often use the term "Scottish Nationalist" to refer to someone who is in favour of Scottish independence. It follows that someone in favour of the equivalent status for Britain, based on this definition is a British Nationalist etc.

That is nothing to do with citizenship. The vote was nothing to do with citizenship and you are confusing the two.
WeeSam


Posts: 110
Joined: Sep 2014
Last Visited: 00:53
5th Apr 2021
Re: Yae or Nae what will be best for Scottish Skiing
Date Posted: 17.37hrs on Fri 3 Oct 14
DonaldM Wrote:

That is nothing to do with citizenship. The vote was nothing to do with citizenship and you are confusing the two.


It was EVERYTHING to do with citizenship.

It was about identity: the identitiy of oneself, the identity of oneself in a common nation and abroad, and the identity of that nation internationally. Citizenship is all wrapped up in that.

The SNP tried to pretend it was about politics and "Westminster" (code word for English) and ended up getting tied up in knots from which they could not unwrap themselves.




Your statement, ",,,,it follows....", ; no it does not follow.


No wonder the "yes" vote lost, when there is such wooly-thinking in the camp.

WeeSam


Posts: 110
Joined: Sep 2014
Last Visited: 00:53
5th Apr 2021
Re: Yae or Nae what will be best for Scottish Skiing
Date Posted: 17.45hrs on Fri 3 Oct 14
growwild Wrote:
The slight majority choose to be a subject of the crown, the rest that turned up wanted to be sovereign....


and the rest that didn't turn up, just don't care? A quarter of Glaswegians don't care? Or are happy with the status quo? Or maybe canny enough to realize that Salmond could promise the moon knowing he can always blame "Westminster" for it not happening, regardless of the result.


Talking majorities and figures.

In 1979 a question of Scottish Devolution was asked of the Scottish People. 33% of those eligible to vote, voted yes.

A generation later, in 2014, a question of Scottish Independence was asked of the Scottish People. 38% of those eligible to vote, voted yes.


There never was a great swell in favour of independence in the people of Scotland. Salmond knew this, but was sadly bullied into a calling a referendum (Westminster called his bluff). And what has it managed? To split an aldready fragmented Scotland, and to harden English Nationalism. If Scotland gets powers, then the English will want them too.


Re: British "Subjects"
The term is bandied about a lot, often by those that have no idea of what they are referring. A British Citizen, which you are, is not a British Subject.





Edited 1 times. Last edit at 17.51hrs Fri 3 Oct 14 by WeeSam.
growwild


Posts: 3550
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: Yae or Nae what will be best for Scottish Skiing
Date Posted: 03.08hrs on Sat 4 Oct 14
There was a swell for Scottish independence and your lot knew it, that's why you were probably ordered here tae talk shite.. Devolution eventually happened, same will happen with independence for the people of Scotland AND England, Wales and all the majority of people on earth.....

Does that sound good or ya want to be pumped by the minority?

"I, Savel Caef, [swear by Almighty God] [do solemnly, sincerely and truly affirm and declare] that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, her heirs, and successors, according to law."

SaaAAammm,c'mere, sit sam, roll over sam, that's a good boy sam......
brianwr


Posts: 223
Joined: Feb 2004
Last Visited: 20:09
26th Feb 2021
Re: Yae or Nae what will be best for Scottish Skiing
Date Posted: 11.31hrs on Sat 4 Oct 14
WeeSam Wrote:
growwild Wrote:
Talking majorities and figures.

In 1979 a question of Scottish Devolution was asked of the Scottish People. 33% of those eligible to vote, voted yes.

A generation later, in 2014, a question of Scottish Independence was asked of the Scottish People. 38% of those eligible to vote, voted yes.


There never was a great swell in favour of independence in the people of Scotland.


By that logic, there would never have been a great swell for devolution either. Pre-79, a "home rule" assembly seemed a fanciful notion, but it was normalised and became the "settled will" in about a decade (albeit we had to wait a while to get a govt that would implement it). Pre-2014, independence seemed a fanciful notion, yet it managed to get to the status of serious proposition, albeit still comfortably rejected.

We are about to move a little further down the slippery slope and there's already a majority for Indy among the under 55s. I think the destination is pretty much inevitable, it's just a question of the timetable to get there. ;-)
MartinT


Posts: 44
Joined: Dec 2009
Last Visited: 22:51
16th Feb 2021
Re: Yae or Nae what will be best for Scottish Skiing
Date Posted: 14.01hrs on Sat 4 Oct 14
Brian, well done for not resorting to insults unlike the previous post! I do agree that a federal style UK is looking more likely now in the longer term which will be fairer for all (English included for a change!). Ps. The cairngorm cameras were showing new snow today, nearly time to stop the politics smiling smiley
brianwr


Posts: 223
Joined: Feb 2004
Last Visited: 20:09
26th Feb 2021
Re: Yae or Nae what will be best for Scottish Skiing
Date Posted: 21.48hrs on Sat 4 Oct 14
Martin, it strikes me that both the WLQ and Barnett are clearly unfair to E&W in different ways. Indy would obviously have sorted both but even without full Indy, full fiscal autonomy would answer both problems and respect the referendum result. I don't think we'll get there in 1 jump, but I think that's where things have to end up unless/until we (yes) can persuade a majority.
alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 17:02
27th Mar 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Yae or Nae what will be best for Scottish Skiing
Date Posted: 00.43hrs on Sun 5 Oct 14
I know I might regret this, but to keep things very vaguely on topic - some avatars:


^[forum.winterhighland.info]


^[forum.winterhighland.info]



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 00.44hrs Sun 5 Oct 14 by alan.
growwild


Posts: 3550
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: Yae or Nae what will be best for Scottish Skiing
Date Posted: 02.40hrs on Sun 5 Oct 14
One mans insult is another mans highly evolved deprograming intervention...

I always thought they should have left the chain and ankle iron on the no logo.




DonaldM


Posts: 871
Joined: Jan 2009
Last Visited: 20:58
10th Aug 2019
Re: Yae or Nae what will be best for Scottish Skiing
Date Posted: 20.18hrs on Sun 5 Oct 14
WeeSam Wrote:
growwild Wrote:
The slight majority choose to be a subject of the crown, the rest that turned up wanted to be sovereign....


and the rest that didn't turn up, just don't care? A quarter of Glaswegians don't care? Or are happy with the status quo? Or maybe canny enough to realize that Salmond could promise the moon knowing he can always blame "Westminster" for it not happening, regardless of the result.


Talking majorities and figures.

In 1979 a question of Scottish Devolution was asked of the Scottish People. 33% of those eligible to vote, voted yes.

A generation later, in 2014, a question of Scottish Independence was asked of the Scottish People. 38% of those eligible to vote, voted yes.




There never was a great swell in favour of independence in the people of Scotland. Salmond knew this, but was sadly bullied into a calling a referendum (Westminster called his bluff). And what has it managed? To split an aldready fragmented Scotland, and to harden English Nationalism. If Scotland gets powers, then the English will want them too.


Re: British "Subjects"
The term is bandied about a lot, often by those that have no idea of what they are referring. A British Citizen, which you are, is not a British Subject.





Edited 1 times. Last edit at 18.51hrs Fri 3 Oct 14 by WeeSam.


You are very confused by this clearly. No one uses "Westminster" to mean "English".

Using your own methods (counting votes as percentage of electorate and population) just over 46% of the electorate voted to stay with the Union. Less than half..... About 38% of the population voted to stay with the Union....

Inconvenient when someone reverses your own argument isn't it?
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