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Mountainaddict


Posts: 271
Joined: Nov 2006
Last Visited: 19:38
6th Jan 2021
Forth Road Bridge Re-opening Wed 23 Dec
Date Posted: 12.23hrs on Fri 4 Dec 15
Thread title edited from original: 'FRB Closed Until New Year'
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Bit of a blow for skiers from the south...

[www.bbc.co.uk]

EDIT: Just checked and Kincardine detour not as far as I thought at only 18 miles extra on our 300 miles to Cairngorm/260 to Glenshee.



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 11.40hrs Tue 22 Dec 15 by Mountainaddict.
tim1mw


Posts: 700
Joined: Nov 2006
Re: Forth Road Bridge Closed Until New Year
Date Posted: 13.30hrs on Fri 4 Dec 15
I find it ironic that the extra rail services being put on to mitigate the closure are travelling over a bridge opened in 1890, while the 1964 road bridge has suffered a major structural failure. What's the betting that the rail bridge will also outlast the new Queensferry crossing?
Bomp


Posts: 172
Joined: Nov 2010
Last Visited: 21:25
1st Mar 2021
Re: Forth Road Bridge Closed Until New Year
Date Posted: 16.30hrs on Fri 4 Dec 15
If you're coming from all the way south then the A9 is quicker anyway.

For Edinburgers, it looks like the best snow is at Hillend so why worry?.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 16.30hrs Fri 4 Dec 15 by Bomp.
jabuzzard


Posts: 884
Joined: Jan 2010
Last Visited: 19:50
28th Feb 2021
Re: Forth Road Bridge Closed Until New Year
Date Posted: 16.38hrs on Fri 4 Dec 15
That's a tough one, any bridge requires maintenance, it's not like the rail bridge has no maintenance done on it for example. The other issue is that unlike the rail bridge road bridge is operating well beyond it's design specification which severely impacts the lifespan of the structure. I would also note that the rail bridge is massively over engineered at considerable cost. Had the road bridge been similarly over engineered there would be no problems right now, but the the original bridge would have cost many times what it did.

The other issue is that as a cable stay bridge the Queensferry crossing is much easier to "repair". In fact the existing road bridge is eminently repairable, just it would require years of major disruption and closure. In my view it would actually be prudent once the new bridge is open to do a full overhaul of the existing bridge. Hey I work in IT and spend my working life designing redundancy into systems.

My final thought for the days is I notice the "just repair the existing bridge, waste of money building a new one" crowd are keeping a low profile right now.
PeterS


Posts: 977
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 07:04
22nd Feb 2021
What's this?What's this?
Re: Forth Road Bridge Closed Until New Year
Date Posted: 18.46hrs on Fri 4 Dec 15
Presumably the tunnel option was too expensive ?
Doug_Bryce


Posts: 1373
Joined: Jan 2003
Re: Forth Road Bridge Closed Until New Year
Date Posted: 20.00hrs on Fri 4 Dec 15
^ apparently there are too many mine shafts under forth to build a tunnel.
norwegian style tunnel would have got my vote.

rumors that it might be "public transport" only when re-opened in new year.
which would be significant disruption for anyone living on the east coast.

more skiers at glencoe / nevis ?
fewer at gorm and glenshee....

[www.haggistrap.co.uk]



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 20.03hrs Fri 4 Dec 15 by Doug_Bryce.
tim1mw


Posts: 700
Joined: Nov 2006
Re: Forth Road Bridge Closed Until New Year
Date Posted: 21.06hrs on Fri 4 Dec 15

In fact the existing road bridge is eminently repairable, just it would require years of major disruption and closure. In my view it would actually be prudent once the new bridge is open to do a full overhaul of the existing bridge.


The old Severn bridge was retained and refurbished after the new one opened, they should do the same for the Forth. For such a crucial route, that kind of redundancy is worth paying for. The Forth road bridge is about the same age as the old Severn bridge and probably a similar design, so this proves your view that refurbishment is possible.
alan


Posts: 10745
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 14:52
26th Feb 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Forth Road Bridge Closed Until New Year
Date Posted: 22.33hrs on Fri 4 Dec 15
The FRB is being retained on opening of the new crossing and will undergo an extensive refurbishment, it will then be a public transport corridor and walking / cycle routes as now.

The potential for a more through reworking of the existing bridge to carry trams or tram-trains has been talked about as well, but deck adaptions should certainly allow for future road use to provide redundancy. Just as well the Clackmananshire Bridge was built!
Andy


Posts: 1406
Joined: Jan 2003
Last Visited: 08:47
2nd May 2019
Re: Forth Road Bridge Closed Until New Year
Date Posted: 13.31hrs on Sat 5 Dec 15
I've heard about 3 different stories about whats going to happen when the new bridge opens...but for the meantime my 40min to 1hr commute each way has turned into 2.5 hrs each way....5hrs commute is just stupid. I'll have to find another job soon! Even with the new bridge the traffic is just going to get worse in the next decade.
On the plus side i'm only an hour or so from Glenshee.
Hustler


Posts: 760
Joined: Oct 2006
Last Visited: 07:52
19th Aug 2019
Re: Forth Road Bridge Closed Until New Year
Date Posted: 17.28hrs on Sat 5 Dec 15
Traffic over the next decade will not be helped any by HMRC's odd plans to relocate around 1500 jobs into Edinburgh city centre from existing satellite locations. All the while shedding @2000 jobs overall across Scotland, closing 14 offices to then open the two new mega offices, one each for Glasgow & Embra.
DaveF


Posts: 131
Joined: Jan 2008
Last Visited: 23:37
18th Dec 2015
Re: Forth Road Bridge Closed Until New Year
Date Posted: 21.22hrs on Sat 5 Dec 15
Not sure what the Norwegian method of tunnelling is but when the created the second Tyne tunnel they dug a trench, floated the tunnel up the river then sank it into the trench and assembled. Meant they didn't have to dig deeply under the river as they did with the first one. The land parts were built using a cut and cover method. Overall a quicker and cheaper approach.
geoffers


Posts: 97
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 21:32
26th Feb 2021
Re: Forth Road Bridge Closed Until New Year
Date Posted: 11.51hrs on Sun 6 Dec 15
tim1mw Wrote:

The old Severn bridge was retained and refurbished after the new one opened, they should do the same for the Forth. For such a crucial route, that kind of redundancy is worth paying for. The Forth road bridge is about the same age as the old Severn bridge and probably a similar design, so this proves your view that refurbishment is possible.

I think the Severn, Humber and Forth bridges all are of similar design: all three have the same issues with individual wires snapping and AFAIK have all had similar acoustic monitoring and dehumidification systems installed.

The Forth bridge cables have 11,618 wires wrapped into bundles, and they have apparently found 93 broken wires since 2006 (may be out-of-date stats now)

However, the current issue is apparently due to structural cracking in the bridge deck support truss itself (which does look significantly different from the Severn Bridge deck) - the bridge apparently was designed with a max capacity of 30k vehicles per day, which is regularly exceeded and could raise to almost double it's design capacity

[www.bbc.co.uk]

Earlier article on cable issue [www.scotsman.com]

New Civil Engineer article here: [www.nce.co.uk]


Cheers, Geoff



Edited 6 times. Last edit at 17.04hrs Sun 6 Dec 15 by geoffers.
jabuzzard


Posts: 884
Joined: Jan 2010
Last Visited: 19:50
28th Feb 2021
Re: Forth Road Bridge Closed Until New Year
Date Posted: 11.21hrs on Mon 7 Dec 15
DaveF Wrote:
Not sure what the Norwegian method of tunnelling is but when the created the second Tyne tunnel they dug a trench, floated the tunnel up the river then sank it into the trench and assembled. Meant they didn't have to dig deeply under the river as they did with the first one. The land parts were built using a cut and cover method. Overall a quicker and cheaper approach.


That was the option under consideration for a Forth road tunnel. It was rejected on cost and environmental grounds, to do with sediment disturbance on marine wildlife.
jabuzzard


Posts: 884
Joined: Jan 2010
Last Visited: 19:50
28th Feb 2021
Re: Forth Road Bridge Closed Until New Year
Date Posted: 11.50hrs on Mon 7 Dec 15
geoffers Wrote:
However, the current issue is apparently due to structural cracking in the bridge deck support truss itself (which does look significantly different from the Severn Bridge deck) - the bridge apparently was designed with a max capacity of 30k vehicles per day, which is regularly exceeded and could raise to almost double it's design capacity


I would argue strongly that every last person who has exceeded the speed limit on the Forth Road Bridge is to blame for the failure in the steel work discovered last week. Had people kept to the speed limit then it is highly likely the failure would not have occurred. Going from 50mph to 70mph nearly doubles the energy put through the bridge structure, and I am sick of been overtaken at 50mph by big HGV's on the bridge.

Personally on reopening I would put average speed cameras on the bridge and institute whopping big fines for exceeding the limit, say 500 for a car and 5000 for an HGV.
ESD1711


Posts: 185
Joined: Nov 2011
Last Visited: 06:17
13th Feb 2019
Re: Forth Road Bridge Closed Until New Year
Date Posted: 13.41hrs on Mon 7 Dec 15
jabuzzard Wrote:
geoffers Wrote:
However, the current issue is apparently due to structural cracking in the bridge deck support truss itself (which does look significantly different from the Severn Bridge deck) - the bridge apparently was designed with a max capacity of 30k vehicles per day, which is regularly exceeded and could raise to almost double it's design capacity


I would argue strongly that every last person who has exceeded the speed limit on the Forth Road Bridge is to blame for the failure in the steel work discovered last week. Had people kept to the speed limit then it is highly likely the failure would not have occurred. Going from 50mph to 70mph nearly doubles the energy put through the bridge structure, and I am sick of been overtaken at 50mph by big HGV's on the bridge.

Personally on reopening I would put average speed cameras on the bridge and institute whopping big fines for exceeding the limit, say 500 for a car and 5000 for an HGV.


I dunno how anyone can physically speed on the bridge - even at 50 the thudding has grown more and more unbearable as time has gone on.... sad smiley


But yeah, doesn't bode well for us Edinburgh folk hoping to get up to Glenshee or Cairngorm - although I dare say there are a few of the 'local slopes for local people' posters on here who'll be rubbing their hands with glee at that thought.
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