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some frustrated skier


Posts: 236
Joined: Mar 2003
Last Visited: 21:17
26th Oct 2020
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 14.05hrs on Sat 7 Oct 17
Brilliant news. Hopefully get a visit or two to Glenshee and support a resort for skiers

PeterS


Posts: 960
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 10:18
25th Oct 2020
What's this?What's this?
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 19.38hrs on Sat 7 Oct 17
Quite. They deserve a decent season.

ML


Guest
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 21.45hrs on Sun 18 Mar 18
With the season now well underway, will we see the CLF-4 next season? Last year they had problems with finances / planning applications and couldn't put in in this summer. But this season seems to be very good for Glenshee so far.

Will we see the chair go in next summer, and are there any extra plans next season? Like Snow-making to make the Baddoch/Cairnwell/Tiger Chair combi extra worthwhile?

I Know it's early to say, but with the amount of stunning days at Glenshee the money must be pouring in this year.


Skicadets


Posts: 440
Joined: Feb 2016
Last Visited: 17:57
8th Mar 2020
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 13.19hrs on Tue 10 Apr 18
Heard a person back in January ask a member of Glenshee staff:Is this lift(Cairnwell T-bar) going to be replaced by the chairlift ? The member of staff replied by saying that the T-bar over there (pointing over at Crn Aosda) might be replaced instead.

Apparently Crn Aosda was deemed unusable as it was unsafe but as the work has been done and it has operated a fair bit this year so it might be better to stick with the original plan and get the new Cairnwell Chair installed and then reconsider investing in other lifts

Dunc


Posts: 325
Joined: Nov 2004
Last Visited: 14:25
7th Oct 2020
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 16.16hrs on Tue 10 Apr 18
Could someone please remind me why replacing the Cairnwell t-bar with a quad chair is a good idea.....or rather, why it is a better idea than putting it up Butcharts/Cairn Aosda or over Meall Odhar. Thanks.

alan


Posts: 10707
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 19:17
26th Oct 2020
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 16.51hrs on Tue 10 Apr 18
Dunc Wrote:
Could someone please remind me why replacing the Cairnwell t-bar with a quad chair is a good idea.....or rather, why it is a better idea than putting it up Butcharts/Cairn Aosda or over Meall Odhar. Thanks.


Replacing Carn Aosda would be quite appealing, presumably that would then become the lift of choice over the Access Poma so there would always be direct access to the Carn Aosda Reds as well as Butchart's and the Poma blue run.

The but though is that a chair here is likely to have more closed days than on the Cairnwell T-bar line as the topography of this side means its significantly more exposed. The runs off a Carn Aosda Chair would all be South facing, but off a replacement for the Cairnwell T-bar on balance the snow catching and holding properties are better and it's not unknown for the outer RaceTrack to hold onto snow beyond the T-bar track.

Another factor is the Bunny Run which would be opened up as an easily accessible long, but fairly gentle winding green and it's also probably the more likely option for providing access to Butchart's T-bar in lean snow conditions.

More access to more terrain with the quad replacing the Cairnwell T-bar, while the Carn Aosda side already has 3 functioning lifts.

With regards Meall Odhar, I'm inclined to think the entire middle valley needs a rethink and firstly I'd go for a chair from just fractionally below Tom Dearg to one of the mounds just above the Meall Odhar Cafe.

This would serve to distribute people around the lifts at the middle rather than at the moment a very large number arriving at Tom Dearg with nowhere else to go. Some snow making and drainage works here would make a good very sheltered early intermediate run of the chair itself. It would allow the Home Run and Northern ridge of Meall Odhar to be much more easily skied for fun rather than just a way out of Coire Fionn at the end of the day, as it's pretty convoluted to get back to the top of the Caenlocahn at present.

A decent chair line without being too high might require removal of the Cluny Pomas, in which case move the best bits to Tom Dearg to make one Poma to double up Tom Dearg. If the Chair ended in a suitable place it would be possible to fence a travesere to the South end of the carpark which would take a bit of strain of Tom Dearg on the mental busy days.

01cookjk


Posts: 128
Joined: Jan 2014
Last Visited: 09:50
22nd Oct 2020
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 18.03hrs on Tue 10 Apr 18
If it gets used to replace the Cairnwell T-Bar, Glenshee should at least consider using the opportunity to bury water pipes and power cables for 4-5 future fan guns to be placed along the lower section of the racetrack and renew/upgrade the snow fencing

Meanwhile, some extra drainage around Tom Dearg would be a good investment. Oh the horrors of skiing through muddy sludge encountered there several times over the last decade.

awaytouring


Posts: 53
Joined: Nov 2004
Last Visited: 16:06
25th Jan 2020
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 19.26hrs on Tue 10 Apr 18
Whilst any new lift is a welcome addition, could an alternative option be to install a cheap button lift or rope tow from the low point between the Cairnwell (Tiger) chair and the top of the existing Cairnwell T-Bar? This would allow people of all abilities to use the Cairnwell (Tiger) chair to ski all the Cairnwell runs + bunny run and would probably reduce any queueing for the Cairnwell T-Bar as most people would probably take the Cairnwell (Tiger) chair and not the T-Bar.

The proposed replacement chair for the Cairnwell T-Bar could be used elsewhere.

A new fenced run from that same low point going skiers left of Claybokie to join the existing Cairnwell run would also be a great addition.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 19.28hrs Tue 10 Apr 18 by awaytouring.

jabuzzard


Posts: 870
Joined: Jan 2010
Last Visited: 20:56
25th Oct 2020
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 15.34hrs on Wed 11 Apr 18
awaytouring Wrote:
Whilst any new lift is a welcome addition, could an alternative option be to install a cheap button lift or rope tow from the low point between the Cairnwell (Tiger) chair and the top of the existing Cairnwell T-Bar? This would allow people of all abilities to use the Cairnwell (Tiger) chair to ski all the Cairnwell runs + bunny run and would probably reduce any queueing for the Cairnwell T-Bar as most people would probably take the Cairnwell (Tiger) chair and not the T-Bar.

The proposed replacement chair for the Cairnwell T-Bar could be used elsewhere.

A new fenced run from that same low point going skiers left of Claybokie to join the existing Cairnwell run would also be a great addition.


The drop from the top of the Cairnwell/Tiger chair along the ridge is marked red on the piste map. It certainly is not a green and unless you did some extensive landscaping is not a blue either. Hence you need to put a chair in to replace the Cairnwell T-bar.

Admittedly another chair up Crn Aosda replacing say both Burchards Access Poma and the Crn Aosda T-bar along with a bunch of snowmaking would make the Cairnwell side really really good.

Personally I think the Sunnyside needs a complete revamp. I would start with replacing all the lifts (Sunnyside Poma 1/2, Sunnyside Chair, Cluny Poma 1/2 and Tom Dearg) with an two way four man chair. Six lifts to one with more capacity.



01cookjk


Posts: 128
Joined: Jan 2014
Last Visited: 09:50
22nd Oct 2020
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 18.47hrs on Wed 11 Apr 18
I had the same Idea reg. the Sunnyside area.

One Quad chair with off-loading in both directions at the summit and loading at the Tom Dearg Side would allow for 1/3 of the staffing and the same, if not more uplift capacity. The sunnyside chair could then be relocated to Meall Odhar, but its worth considering that Glenshee runs on Generator power, located at 4 different points across the ski area and the chairs may require additional power.



tim1mw


Posts: 698
Joined: Nov 2006
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 21.30hrs on Wed 11 Apr 18
Personally I'll be happy to see the back of the Cairnwell T-bar, I find T-bars uncomfortable to ride. My fantasy version of Glenshee has a chair on Carn Aosda running up from the bottom of the plastic slope to the top of the blue run. However the replacing either t-bar is a good move, since snowmaking can then (hopefully) be concentrated on those runs + Bucharts Access creating an area with good lift capacity and reliable snow.

Jabuzzard: Replacing all those lifts with a single two way chair would require a lift with an almost 90 degree turn at the top. Not impossible, but unusual and therefore more expensive to build and maintain. I've added the only viable lift alignment which allows for a falling gradient to access all runs in orange below:



In addition, the vertical drop across the top of Sunnyside is only 10m and the current lifts are about 200m apart at the top, so that's quite a long stretch of nearly flat ground to negotiate for a 600m run (and Tom Dearg is shorter), especially if there is a headwind! The same applies to the gully run between Cluny and Tom Dearg, which has also has very little vertical drop. For comparison sake, the gradient on both these routes is about half that of the Dink Dink.

The other point to consider is whether it is wise to remove all the redundant capacity. If the single lift were to fail, then access to Meall Odhar and beyond is lost. You would need to keep a larger stock of spare parts and operate a more frequent maintenance schedule (which I assume is the case for the access lifts at Glencoe and Nevis, these lifts are also lower and less exposed). That may still be cheaper than multiple lifts, but it needs to be factored in to the calculation. It's worth noting that Glencoe do not propose to remove the plateau poma once there new chairlift has gone in, which suggests to me that the economics are in favour of redundancy.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 21.31hrs Wed 11 Apr 18 by tim1mw.

Attachments: gs.jpg (121kB)  
jabuzzard


Posts: 870
Joined: Jan 2010
Last Visited: 20:56
25th Oct 2020
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 09.23hrs on Thu 12 Apr 18
tim1mw Wrote:

Jabuzzard: Replacing all those lifts with a single two way chair would require a lift with an almost 90 degree turn at the top. Not impossible, but unusual and therefore more expensive to build and maintain. I've added the only viable lift alignment which allows for a falling gradient to access all runs in orange below:


I have been on many a chairlift with bends in them in the Alps over the years, so quite possible. In fantasy land you could do it as two interlinked detachable chairs.


In addition, the vertical drop across the top of Sunnyside is only 10m and the current lifts are about 200m apart at the top, so that's quite a long stretch of nearly flat ground to negotiate for a 600m run (and Tom Dearg is shorter), especially if there is a headwind! The same applies to the gully run between Cluny and Tom Dearg, which has also has very little vertical drop. For comparison sake, the gradient on both these routes is about half that of the Dink Dink.


Well perhaps you could leave the Tom Dearg Poma in, ditch the rest and go for a straighter alignment on the chair.


It's worth noting that Glencoe do not propose to remove the plateau poma once there new chairlift has gone in, which suggests to me that the economics are in favour of redundancy.


Or in the short term removing a lift costs $$$ that perhaps Glencoe don't have. Personally if I where Glencoe I would leave it in for at least one season while any gremlins with the new lift are worked out and everyone is familiarized with it. I would then either consider scrapping it or moving elsewhere on the mountain.





Edited 2 times. Last edit at 10.39hrs Thu 12 Apr 18 by jabuzzard.

CMartindale


Posts: 128
Joined: Aug 2014
Last Visited: 20:31
25th Jul 2019
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 10.32hrs on Thu 12 Apr 18
Cairnwell T-bar is quite possibly the most reliable lift up there as the runs are so snow sure. Trouble is the current lift must be 50+ years old and it shows. Replacing with a high capacity chair will maximise the use of available snow, enhance the customer experience immeasurably and on the busiest weekends will make the biggest difference. Not the most exciting new lift perhaps but definitely a sensible choice. Will probably see an increase of people shifting from Cairngorm to GS for the better lifts soon enough.

My only problem with it is the name... whats it going to be?

01cookjk


Posts: 128
Joined: Jan 2014
Last Visited: 09:50
22nd Oct 2020
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 11.17hrs on Thu 12 Apr 18
Good point about the Curve in the Lift, and of course the decent path back to the runs currently flowing from the Sunnyside Pomas.

Fixed grip chairlifts can make corners in 3 ways.

a) A Loopback-set of bullwheels, a good example is the Snowflake lift at Breckenridge, Colorado.

b) A bi-Cable system might work: [www.youtube.com]

c) Special grips that work in conjunction with a bullwheel 'sandwhich'
[www.youtube.com]

d) long sweeping curves of alternating compression/depression sheeves also work. Sadly, I can't find a video example of this, but I know they exist.

However, all of this is sounding quite complex. Perhaps GS would just be better of without such luxuries!

PeterS


Posts: 960
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 10:18
25th Oct 2020
What's this?What's this?
Re: Another new chair....Glenshee you spoil us
Date Posted: 12.11hrs on Thu 12 Apr 18
Do Glenshee actually need any more uplift capacity ?

They have had a successful season with some busy days so they should have a good idea about the impact of the new Cairnwell chair on demand and flow.

There may be a temptation to save their money in order to buffer against the next poor season and continue their programme of refurbishment instead ?

I thought the work they have carried out on the Caenlochan Poma was impressive. The Pomas will always be faster than fixed grip chairs so some users will choose them instead.




Edited 2 times. Last edit at 12.36hrs Thu 12 Apr 18 by PeterS.

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