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sspeirs


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22nd Apr 2021
EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 10.18hrs on Fri 10 Mar 17
[newsroom.ee.co.uk]

We had a thread on the dire internet a years or so back (which I can't find anymore), esp on the internet access being the source of early morning queues at Glencoe (challenges of processing high volumes of creadit card transactions) ... so good to see this rollout.

Connor Small (thanks!), one of the lifties, has done some tests showing 54MB/s download at the base and just over 20MB/s at the summit, which is pretty impressive.

There may of course still be some "not spots" - I suspect the plateau cafe may struggle with signal since it's not in the line of sight to the Kingshouse mast on Rannoch Moor.

According to this press release, they also have 4G on the Cairnwell tower - which I presume is the mast just at the southern end of Glenshee.

For work purposes, it would be great if anyone visiting Glenshee - assuming you are on EE (BT and Asda Mobile run over EE too) could run a speed test or two (e.g. at the base station and one of the summits) and let me know what speed you are getting. Ookla SpeedTest and OpenSignal have free apps that let you test mobile upload and download speeds. Be much appreciated! Thanks





Edited 2 times. Last edit at 10.34hrs Fri 10 Mar 17 by sspeirs.

Attachments: EE 4G - base and summit Glencoe Mountain - low res.jpg (52kB)  
Bomp


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22nd Apr 2021
Re: EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 13.02hrs on Fri 10 Mar 17
Don't forget that internet providers all make a habit of throttling bandwidth - unless you are accessing a known speed test site, in which case they make sure you get the best possible figure.

Still, any data is better than no data, and any 4G is better than the half a G that used to be the norm...

carsey


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Re: EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 18.03hrs on Sun 12 Mar 17
We got about 15mb in the hobbits at Glencoe at the weekend.

No 4g on the mountain for us (mid-lower levels)

Whether we hit a teething issue or the clouds were aligned wrong (which shouldnt make much difference) is another thing. But Definitely got quick mobile data at the resort level.

sspeirs


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Re: EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 16.22hrs on Tue 14 Mar 17
Thanks for this

yea I struggled to get 4G working at upper levels too. Speed test showed 30 MB/s at the Rescue/Ski patrol hit but I as soon as I turned on Facebook live video streaming it dropped back to 3G and at the top of the mountain I couldn't get live streaming going

The weather apparently does affect mobile speeds, esp with cloud/moisture levels - but I'm not sure what the official view on this is.

Certainly indoor performance drops off compared to outside.... I got 49 Mb/s download and 30 Mb/s upload outside the cafe - but only 3G inside - not helped by the metal roof.

Still way better than the DSL that Glencoe gets over the wire - with 1.2 or there abouts down, the upload will be a couple of 100K at best!

alan


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Re: EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 23.09hrs on Tue 14 Mar 17
sspeirs Wrote:

Still way better than the DSL that Glencoe gets over the wire - with 1.2 or there abouts down, the upload will be a couple of 100K at best!


It's even worse than that at about 450kb/s per ADSL line and there is only 2 though there are 5 phone pairs to the site the DSLAM in the Kingshouse exchange is full so it's not even possible to increase the number of ADSL circuits.

Mobile reception in the servery end of the cafe is poor because the tin roof is lower than the Cafe on the side facing the mast.

veletron


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Re: EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 17.43hrs on Mon 20 Mar 17
Almost 100Mbits down, and 50+ Mbits up at Glenshee (From Glas Maol Summit) back in Jan. With EE. Parked at road end Glen Isla (Auchavan) the Friday overnight had 4G there too from different base station. Campervan had a better internet connection than I get at home.

Couple of weeks ago I was drinking at the Clachaig - nowt in the pub, but good 4G, around 50Mbits down in the pub car park.

Nigel

jabuzzard


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Re: EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 10.49hrs on Tue 21 Mar 17
alan Wrote:

It's even worse than that at about 450kb/s per ADSL line and there is only 2 though there are 5 phone pairs to the site the DSLAM in the Kingshouse exchange is full so it's not even possible to increase the number of ADSL circuits.

Mobile reception in the servery end of the cafe is poor because the tin roof is lower than the Cafe on the side facing the mast.


Like I posted earlier in the year, that will all change by the end of 2018 because BT/Openreach are upgrading all the remaining exchanges to 21st Century Network (21CN) powered Wholesale Broadband Connect (WBC) platform, which will give you an ADSL 2+ connection of at least 10Mbps for 99.8% of the country. I would imagine Glencoe would get better than that because they are not that far from the Kinghouse exchange.


alan


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Re: EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 13.29hrs on Wed 22 Mar 17
jabuzzard Wrote:
alan Wrote:

It's even worse than that at about 450kb/s per ADSL line and there is only 2 though there are 5 phone pairs to the site the DSLAM in the Kingshouse exchange is full so it's not even possible to increase the number of ADSL circuits.

Mobile reception in the servery end of the cafe is poor because the tin roof is lower than the Cafe on the side facing the mast.

Like I posted earlier in the year, that will all change by the end of 2018 because BT/Openreach are upgrading all the remaining exchanges to 21st Century Network (21CN) powered Wholesale Broadband Connect (WBC) platform, which will give you an ADSL 2+ connection of at least 10Mbps for 99.8% of the country. I would imagine Glencoe would get better than that because they are not that far from the Kinghouse exchange.


And you were told then and it's been confirmed since that it makes no difference. The 21CN project shifts the network including voice to an IP based system, it does not on its own bring any benefit in terms of improving the bsckhsul which is a greater constraint than the capacity of the existing DSLAM.

jabuzzard


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Re: EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 15.44hrs on Wed 22 Mar 17
alan Wrote:
jabuzzard Wrote:
alan Wrote:

It's even worse than that at about 450kb/s per ADSL line and there is only 2 though there are 5 phone pairs to the site the DSLAM in the Kingshouse exchange is full so it's not even possible to increase the number of ADSL circuits.

Mobile reception in the servery end of the cafe is poor because the tin roof is lower than the Cafe on the side facing the mast.

Like I posted earlier in the year, that will all change by the end of 2018 because BT/Openreach are upgrading all the remaining exchanges to 21st Century Network (21CN) powered Wholesale Broadband Connect (WBC) platform, which will give you an ADSL 2+ connection of at least 10Mbps for 99.8% of the country. I would imagine Glencoe would get better than that because they are not that far from the Kinghouse exchange.


And you were told then and it's been confirmed since that it makes no difference. The 21CN project shifts the network including voice to an IP based system, it does not on its own bring any benefit in terms of improving the bsckhsul which is a greater constraint than the capacity of the existing DSLAM.


If that where the case then there would be no point in the exercise which is to enable the rollout of ADSL2+ in all exchanges to meet the universal service provision of 10Mbps. I have seen nothing anywhere that suggests that backhaul won't be enhanced as required.

alan


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Re: EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 19.31hrs on Wed 22 Mar 17
jabuzzard Wrote:

If that where the case then there would be no point in the exercise


The principle point of the 21CN is to convert voice trunking to an IP based switched packet network.

carsey


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Re: EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 19.43hrs on Wed 22 Mar 17
[www.samknows.com]

Bit more than swapping to IP based networks.

jabuzzard


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Re: EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 20.04hrs on Wed 22 Mar 17
alan Wrote:
The principle point of the 21CN is to convert voice trunking to an IP based switched packet network.


That is a gross simplification. In the Openreach network you need 21CN to get WBC which is the only platform on which they support ADSL2+. So as you need ADSL2+ to get 10Mbps then the universal service commitment will require everything left to be upgraded to 21CN.

That is they are switching to 21CN for the broadband, that voice will change is entirely secondary. Just switching the exchanges and doing nothing about the backhaul would in addition make it a pointless exercise because as I am sure any reasonable person would conclude it does not meet the 10Mbps universal service commitment.

Quite why this is difficult to grasp is beyond me.

alan


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Re: EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 20.24hrs on Wed 22 Mar 17
jabuzzard Wrote:


That is they are switching to 21CN for the broadband, that voice will change is entirely secondary. Just switching the exchanges and doing nothing about the backhaul would in addition make it a pointless exercise because as I am sure any reasonable person would conclude it does not meet the 10Mbps universal service commitment.

Quite why this is difficult to grasp is beyond me.


21CN project was around long before any commitment to a 10Mbps service commitment, indeed it was conceived before WBC which came about in part to open up access to the OpenReach network.

There is a 10Mbps service commitment but it does not follow that it will be provided by ADSL in all cases and the Scottish Government through HIE is pushing for significantly faster speeds.

At present BT is not even able to provide adequate voice services from the Kingshouse Exchange with ongoing issues in Glen Etive and indeed the audio quality on the lines to the Ski Area are poor despite the relatively short distance being involved - they can't sustain the full 512kb/s ADSL rate provided by the DSLAM either.

The distances involved from that exchange are well beyond the current reach of ADSL2+ at 10Mbps, only The Ski Area, a few properties at the Kingshouse would benefit, the majority of connected properties would not and the total backhaul to the exchange doesn't come to 10Mbps so it would be pointless as things stand. Fibre to the Cabinet has no benefit because properties served are too spatially dispersed.

Thus at present the exchange remains under review with no upgrade path agreed. It is classed as not commercially viable to upgrade services there by BT and as ADSL2 or FTTC would be useless for providing a universal service of 10Mbit/s to all customers connected it is possible though not definite that a solution will not involve the exchange at all.





Edited 1 times. Last edit at 20.54hrs Wed 22 Mar 17 by alan.

jabuzzard


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Re: EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 10.46hrs on Thu 23 Mar 17
alan Wrote:
21CN project was around long before any commitment to a 10Mbps service commitment, indeed it was conceived before WBC which came about in part to open up access to the OpenReach network.


I know that, but it is utterly irrelevant what the origins of the 21CN project is to the discussion at hand, which is Openreach's commitment to upgrade ALL exchanges to support ADSL2+ to help meet the 10Mbps universal commitment.

So unless you have evidence to the contrary that where necessary Openreach will be increasing backhaul all your protestations are meaningless.


There is a 10Mbps service commitment but it does not follow that it will be provided by ADSL in all cases and the Scottish Government through HIE is pushing for significantly faster speeds.


Except BT/Openreach's commitment earlier this year to upgrade ALL exchanges to ADSL2+ to meet the UK 10Mbps service obligation. What the HIE or Scottish Government want is irrelevant in that regard. Though if you ask me I would be happy to pay the taxes to just junk the Kinghouse exchange and do it all FTTP from somewhere else. Anything that is not fibre is an interim solution and the long we take to get to fibre the more it will cost in real terms in the end.


At present BT is not even able to provide adequate voice services from the Kingshouse Exchange with ongoing issues in Glen Etive and indeed the audio quality on the lines to the Ski Area are poor despite the relatively short distance being involved - they can't sustain the full 512kb/s ADSL rate provided by the DSLAM either.


I understand the situation at the moment. That however is completely irrelevant to the announcement by BT/Openreach in January.


The distances involved from that exchange are well beyond the current reach of ADSL2+ at 10Mbps, only The Ski Area, a few properties at the Kingshouse would benefit, the majority of connected properties would not and the total backhaul to the exchange doesn't come to 10Mbps so it would be pointless as things stand. Fibre to the Cabinet has no benefit because properties served are too spatially dispersed.


There are only 26 lines on the exchange to being with.


Thus at present the exchange remains under review with no upgrade path agreed. It is classed as not commercially viable to upgrade services there by BT and as ADSL2 or FTTC would be useless for providing a universal service of 10Mbit/s to all customers connected it is possible though not definite that a solution will not involve the exchange at all.


Almost nothing at the Kinghouse exchange will ever be commercially viable, that that is a facetious argument, and as we are talking about the USO irrelevant.

alan


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Re: EE 4G at Scottish Ski Centres
Date Posted: 13.17hrs on Thu 23 Mar 17
It is not facetious - if the exchange is upgraded or alternatives provided so every property connected to it can get at least a 10mbit/s connection then whatever technology combo is used it will be done as part of the public funded HIE managed initiative by the Scottish Government.

A conversion to 21CN at the exchange is entirely possible without upgrading the backhaul, but it renders the conversion meaningless in terms enhancing the broadband offer unless there was only 1 or 2 remaining DSL circuits in use, even then it would still be pants as the backhaul to the ADSL is reportedly only 1.5mbit/s and was provided for ISDN.

Incidentally it has been made abundantly clear to both the SG and HIE at numerous face to face and group meetings over the past 18months regarding rural Lochaber,that the criteria for the rollout of the public money backed enhancements had several flaws. It is fair to say there is a lot of unhappiness with HIE and a feeling yet another opportunity to do this properly and right is being lost for the third time!

I agree with you about FTTP - had the initial HIE backed ISDN roll out and then ADSL (with even at the time obsolete 512kb mini dslams) been managed properly and specced properly much of the infrastructure needed for superfast broadband would already be in place across the Highlands and the upgrade paths far easier and the overall cost of delivery far less. At least a decent fibre based core network has been put in place this time, but at the extremities and at local level once again large sums of money are being spent on short term, quick fix solutions with limited or no future upgrade path.


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