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ralphtruman


Posts: 4
Joined: Nov 2017
Last Visited: 21:23
27th Nov 2017
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 21.25hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
ropetow,

thanks for that,
your reply was much more convincing than Dougs.
I think I believe you in this case.
Unless Doug has anything to add..?

alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 22:28
10th Mar 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 21.48hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
The CairnGorm SSC Hut is the private property of the collective membership of the Scottish Ski Club, the lease referred to is a ground lease for the plot on which the hut stands, but the hut itself is the property of the club and is not leased from CML, NAIL or HIE.

As per their public statement the SSC told CML they wished the webcams to remain. For CML to suggest that they 'sought to consult with Winter Highland also' is simply laughable. In a short and abrupt phone call in October to my colleague, they demanded that we remove the webcams from the SSC hut immediately, we refused and said they would remain in situ and online for as long as they had the support of the building owner - the SSC.

The Scottish Ski Club did not remove their support for the webcams and on Thursday afternoon the General Manager of CML left a voicemail simply informing us that CML were going ahead and entering the SSC hut and taking our webcams and AWS down.



Charlie Leppard


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 21.52hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
Ralph, are you a Russian cyber-agitator trying to ferment discontent in the Scottish snowsports community?

That's how your posts read Comrade.

Doug_Bryce


Posts: 1373
Joined: Jan 2003
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 21.57hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17

Unless Doug has anything to add..?


Uhhhm : See above grinning smiley
The SSC hut is clearly owned by club members - not Natural Retreats.

Not entirely sure what the point of your 3 post history is ?



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 22.01hrs Mon 27 Nov 17 by Doug_Bryce.

ropetow


Posts: 202
Joined: Sep 2006
Last Visited: 09:08
13th Apr 2021
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 22.08hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
Did they return your property to you?

I'm guessing you are considering your next move vis a vis legal action but appreciate that this is not a fitting place to discuss.

Re ground leases - through various provisions in the ground lease documents, a landlord may retain some element of control over the development and permitted uses of the land that is leased under the ground lease. Many ground leases require a tenant to develop, construct and operate a specific type of commercial project and not change the nature of the project without the landlord's prior approval.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 22.14hrs Mon 27 Nov 17 by ropetow.

SnowmanDave


Posts: 186
Joined: Dec 2013
Last Visited: 12:36
3rd Mar 2021
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 22.13hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
ropetow Wrote:
Nope - what i quoted was an extract from the SSC. There would appear to be some sort of lease in place between SSC and CML - it didnt say it was for the hut.

Standard Ts and Cs for lease contracts usually contain a clause that allows the landlord to 'inspect' the property - but the details of exactly how that happens is dependant on the conditions of the lease.

With regards to removing property - i dont think the webcams etc were the property of the tenants - SSC. I dont know what the SSC agreed with CML with regards to access and whether the equipment was retained by CML or given back to SSC and/or Winterhighland. Alan would be the person to shed any light on this.

I also dont know what the agreement was between SSC and Winterhighland with regards to the webcams either. All this has a bearing on the actions of CML.

As a solicitor once told me - the only person who can decide on the legality of something is a judge in a court of law.


Not been reading the thread from the start eh???

Anyway Alan has replied.

SSC own the hut, & lease the land from the land owners (who are NOT NR)

For 100% clarity for certain people, .....Alan/Doug can you state who bought & owns the cameras & weather station that have been damaged/interfered with.

Also when they were installed so we have an idea as to "how long they have been used freely, without objection , hindrance, etc"

---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---

ropetow


Posts: 202
Joined: Sep 2006
Last Visited: 09:08
13th Apr 2021
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 22.20hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
I have read the thread from the start - The SSC have a lease in place with CML which is likely to be the ground lease.

Where have you read that the SSC lease the land from the land owners who are not NR.

CML is operated by NR is it not?

Edit: Natural Assets Investment Ltd.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 22.32hrs Mon 27 Nov 17 by ropetow.

growwild


Posts: 3550
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 22.58hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
Ohhh, I dunno about getting the dibble involved when its the councils friends who are at it.. Fuhrer stephen house ruined the northern plod by giving them the wee curly tails of the Strathclyde make it up as they go along shower of shite.


The place is shite anyway, I don't see daily reports for the big fridge over the river on this bit of the web and cairngorms is on par wi that pish, full of hipsters, knobs and the posh...

Get yer cams back up, but get remote controlled ones and zoom in on every bare bit of ground ya can see through the season, drive the baw bags aff the hill, posh hipster twats!












Ad_Hynkel


Posts: 222
Joined: Mar 2010
Last Visited: 12:28
12th Feb 2021
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 00.26hrs on Tue 28 Nov 17
Ralph, that's how we (t)roll.

ESD1711


Posts: 185
Joined: Nov 2011
Last Visited: 06:17
13th Feb 2019
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 06.26hrs on Tue 28 Nov 17
So whats the current state of play with the actual cameras?

Have these been removed / stolen / damaged?

Or simply unplugged?

Not that it makes a blind bit of difference right enough, im just curious as to what they've done with the cameras.

Didn't board at CG last winter, nor the winter before that - wont be back again this year either. Thankfully, being from the central belt there are much more appealing options closer to home than a trip to Aviemore, making a boycott very easy from my point of view.

SnowmanDave


Posts: 186
Joined: Dec 2013
Last Visited: 12:36
3rd Mar 2021
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 08.44hrs on Tue 28 Nov 17
ropetow Wrote:
I have read the thread from the start - The SSC have a lease in place with CML which is likely to be the ground lease.

Where have you read that the SSC lease the land from the land owners who are not NR.

CML is operated by NR is it not?

Edit: Natural Assets Investment Ltd.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 22.32hrs Mon 27 Nov 17 by ropetow.


It is in this thread & others but if like me you have actually dealt with the operators (I dealt with CM ltd) from a business perspective...or if you had paid attention over the past several years when there have ben various criticisms of NR on this forum again it has been stated...

NR are the operators, they do not own the land, they just won the contract to run the ski resort...& to build etc as they see fit to operate the resort...

The land owners are the estate & HIE..

---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---

kill_reign


Posts: 423
Joined: Aug 2008
Last Visited: 05:32
10th Feb 2019
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 09.26hrs on Tue 28 Nov 17
Nuts, cant believe what has been happening in cairngorm over the past wee while.
I will be trying to avoid at all costs now. Shame as i like visiting aviemore.

mtq1000


Posts: 596
Joined: Oct 2008
Last Visited: 18:19
15th Apr 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 10.54hrs on Tue 28 Nov 17
I assume Alan you know about this but it has just been put up without any comment from you.

[www.bbc.co.uk]



jabuzzard


Posts: 885
Joined: Jan 2010
Last Visited: 11:02
16th Apr 2021
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 12.00hrs on Tue 28 Nov 17
alan Wrote:
The CairnGorm SSC Hut is the private property of the collective membership of the Scottish Ski Club, the lease referred to is a ground lease for the plot on which the hut stands, but the hut itself is the property of the club and is not leased from CML, NAIL or HIE.

As per their public statement the SSC told CML they wished the webcams to remain. For CML to suggest that they 'sought to consult with Winter Highland also' is simply laughable. In a short and abrupt phone call in October to my colleague, they demanded that we remove the webcams from the SSC hut immediately, we refused and said they would remain in situ and online for as long as they had the support of the building owner - the SSC.

The Scottish Ski Club did not remove their support for the webcams and on Thursday afternoon the General Manager of CML left a voicemail simply informing us that CML were going ahead and entering the SSC hut and taking our webcams and AWS down.



In which case I would send an registered letter to CML informing that unless the items are reinstated immediately and you will be claiming expenses for any remedial work required by yourself. If they fail to do so you will be reporting them to the police. What they have done is flat out illegal, no if's and no buts.

jabuzzard


Posts: 885
Joined: Jan 2010
Last Visited: 11:02
16th Apr 2021
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 12.03hrs on Tue 28 Nov 17
ropetow Wrote:

As a solicitor once told me - the only person who can decide on the legality of something is a judge in a court of law.


That is in general very good advice. Though many things are sufficiently clear cut that this is not necessary; for example if I rock up with a JCB and start demolishing your house we don't need a judge to known my actions are illegal.

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