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SnowmanDave


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 10.30hrs on Tue 6 Nov 18
growwild Wrote:
Make sure it's a real buy out and get the land!


The road & area leading up to the ski area (from Loch Morlich) is owned by the Forestry Commission

HIE actually own the land that the ski area is on according to the official documents....so no private "lairds" etc...

[cairngorms.co.uk]

The priorities listed are:-
1. Snow sports and ski area management (High priority); management of footpaths for informal recreation (High priority); Mountain woodland (a developing priority); Visitor management to protect important natural features (High priority).
2. Facilitation of high quality recreational experiences (High priority); Demand-led provision of educational experiences (Medium-high priority); Provision of a programme of public interpretative experiences (Medium priority) and fixed interpretative provisions (Medium priority)
3. Management planning using best available practice (High priority); Cooperative working with local businesses, communities and the National Park, SNH, neighbouring estates and other partners (Medium priority)

Nothing about "retail & train experience there...which NAIL describe the operation as with "snowsports" at the bottom of the list....






Edited 1 times. Last edit at 10.33hrs Tue 6 Nov 18 by SnowmanDave.

Sunshine


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 11.44hrs on Tue 6 Nov 18
Correction to the last post. The road to the car park is owned by Highland Council. Highland roads are cleared on a priority system. The road to the snow gates was priority 1. There is an agreement with Cairngorm that they will be responsible for clearing from the snow gates to the car park.

SnowmanDave


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 11.53hrs on Tue 6 Nov 18
Sunshine Wrote:
Correction to the last post. The road to the car park is owned by Highland Council. Highland roads are cleared on a priority system. The road to the snow gates was priority 1. There is an agreement with Cairngorm that they will be responsible for clearing from the snow gates to the car park.


HC do NOT own the land under the road....they have "adopted" the road.


Its called "adopting" the road...like many new housing estates & people complain to the council about clearing it etc, but the council won't do anything as they have not "adopted" it...& they only do so when its finished to the required specs...& sometimes they won't adopt even if to spec as its not "public" enough...


If you remove the road the land revealed is not owed by the council...is owned by the land owner...






Edited 1 times. Last edit at 12.27hrs Tue 6 Nov 18 by SnowmanDave.

alan


Posts: 10750
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 23:28
2nd Dec 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 14.49hrs on Tue 6 Nov 18
The solum of the road is part of the Cairngorm Estate and property of HIE along with the area of ground on which the Glenmore garage / workshop is situated, these are not part of the Forestry commission land.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 14.52hrs Tue 6 Nov 18 by alan.

SnowmanDave


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 15.15hrs on Tue 6 Nov 18
alan Wrote:
The solum of the road is part of the Cairngorm Estate and property of HIE along with the area of ground on which the Glenmore garage / workshop is situated, these are not part of the Forestry commission land.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 14.52hrs Tue 6 Nov 18 by alan.


I wasn't 100% certain on this which is why I stated what I did as the CGNPA site has the boundary line between HIEFC as just before the main carpark...

However from my dealings with CGML in the past the snow gates/sheds was CGML...

I know the road has been adopted by HC, but that's a side issue...so who's name is on the land titles from that point upwards as its just HIE/FC according to the CGNPA website...where does CGE fit in?...I thought that other land was RME?...


just basically trying to get to the absolute bottom if a buy out is on the go...(may never be possible)

Just for a laugh the Scottish Assessors lot still have the area down as "The Cairngorm Chairlift Company Ltd."...

[www.saa.gov.uk]





Edited 1 times. Last edit at 16.20hrs Tue 6 Nov 18 by SnowmanDave.

growwild


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 21.42hrs on Tue 6 Nov 18
Still, any buy out should include the land or yer dancing tae some other entities tune. Or just take the land and get intae politics and make laws and fabricate title deeds, its worked before.....


Arguing over who "owns" what does feck all really when these things can be found out, it also detracts fae the revolution and is a tactic knee dwellers use - [www.ros.gov.uk] [www.whoownsscotland.org.uk] [www.whoownstheworld.com]




SnowmanDave


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 09.28hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
Further to my previous post I was getting confused due the fact the people state that the ski area is owned by "Cairngorm estates"...& I understood it to be owned by HIE..


"Cairngorm Estates" is just a name used by HIE who actually own the ski area.

Below is a quote directly from the HIE management plan for Cairngorm estates, & it clears up who owns what & is as I thought it was...

1.1.1 OWNERSHIP
Cairngorm Estate is owned and managed by Highlands and Islands Enterprise the regional development agency for the Highlands and Islands of Scotland funded mainly by the Scottish Executive.

1.1.7 ESTATE RESOURCES FOR MANAGEMENT
Cairngorm Estate is managed through the Competitive Locations Team of Highlands and Islands Enterprise (HIE), based in Inverness. Highlands and Islands Enterprise has a lease agreement with CairnGorm Mountain Limited (CML) for the operation of a leisure and visitor facility, including operation of the railway and ski area.

1.1.8 NEIGHBOURS
The following estates share a boundary with Cairngorm Estate. The boundary is described in Appendix 1.
Highland Council maintains the public road which terminates at the entrance to the main Coire Cas car park and at the extreme eastern end of the Coire na Ciste car park.


So HC maintain the road as they "adopted it"..."Cairngorm Estate" is just a name for that chunk of land, as no Ltd company exists in that name.

So HIE own the whole ski area & they just tendered/contracted out an external company (NAIL) to run the operation that is "Cairngorm Mountain Ltd".....


So with CGML being a separate company which HIE sells the shares to the external contract winning operator (NAIL), & with HIE owning all the land, it is (relatively) easy to totally separate the whole lot from HIE as a buy out...

Unfortunately you have to pay NAIL the 231,239 that they paid for the 565,000 shares in & to operate CGML (& anything else in cutting short the lease re T&C's)...then you have to some how buy out from a Scottish Government agency the land of "Cairngorm estates" & then the value of the buildings etc...





Edited 1 times. Last edit at 09.28hrs Wed 7 Nov 18 by SnowmanDave.

JollyDee


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 11.42hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
Who is paying the wages just now?

SnowmanDave


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 12.19hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
JollyDee Wrote:
Who is paying the wages just now?



This is tricky to answer....lol


Basically CGML exists as a company & everything gets billed to it..CGML is a company & has to exist due to the lease, as CGML existed under HIE

However the shares (565,000 at 1 each) were sold by HIE to NAIL (Natural Assets Investments ltd)...for 231,239....as NAIL won the contract to operate CGML...as HIE couldn't be bothered to run a successful company which had paid its debts off & was making money...


NAIL is a holding company & owns between 12 to 18 subsidiary companies...one of these "Natural Retreats UK ltd (now the Great UK Travel Company ltd ..I think?)...acts as the middle man & bills CGML for all the stuff/wages etc

NAIL is basically under the control of on person..David Gorton...hedge fund manager...

I,m working on a huge thread to post .


alan


Posts: 10750
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 23:28
2nd Dec 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 12.31hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
JollyDee Wrote:
Who is paying the wages just now?


Is that supposed to be a bad joke given there are very few wages being paid just now.

SnowmanDave


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 12.34hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
alan Wrote:
JollyDee Wrote:
Who is paying the wages just now?

Is that supposed to be a bad joke given there are very few wages being paid just now.


sorry....I'm in "literal" mode...& even then its a bad joke describing what NAIL gets up to.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 12.34hrs Wed 7 Nov 18 by SnowmanDave.

Bomp


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 12.43hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
JollyDee Wrote:
Who is paying the wages just now?

Everything about NR and its apparently oh-so-benevolent boss suggest that the answer is "us taxpayers". And that we all know who, one way or another, is getting the bulk of the wages.

SnowmanDave


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 15.52hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
Bomp Wrote:
JollyDee Wrote:
Who is paying the wages just now?
Everything about NR and its apparently oh-so-benevolent boss suggest that the answer is "us taxpayers". And that we all know who, one way or another, is getting the bulk of the wages.


Its not "wages"...they pay him in "interest" on the "loans" he provides..all declared as such in the company accounts...


one year he got .5million from NAIL in interest...

its actually a good way to avoid NI & tax contributions...also with him giving them "loans" in the first place & then getting the same money back as "interest"...its an excellent way to "clean" the money legally from most tax etc...so I recon his "loans" are the profits me makes on his hedge fund & to avoid tax on profit he "loans" said money to the companies...& then gets it back total "clean" of most taxes etc...

JollyDee


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 15.29hrs on Mon 19 Nov 18
You ain't paranoid. Look closer and you will see the interest is never paid - it just rolls up. I bet David is well aware it never will be paid.

Also have a look in your exercise into the huge funds he is paying into the old pension scheme to meet the pensions of those who worked there 30 years ago. Who else would/will do that?

SnowmanDave


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 16.21hrs on Mon 19 Nov 18
JollyDee Wrote:
You ain't paranoid. Look closer and you will see the interest is never paid - it just rolls up. I bet David is well aware it never will be paid.

Also have a look in your exercise into the huge funds he is paying into the old pension scheme to meet the pensions of those who worked there 30 years ago. Who else would/will do that?


The interest is between Gorton & NAIL...NAIL is a holding company & therefore "bank" for the other 12-18 subsidiary companies under it..many of which were failing long before CGML was bought..

as far as the pension fund at CGML..of course they are putting money in...they have to as they managed to LOSE 262,000 from the CGML pension fund in the first year!!!...


From what I know of hedge fund managers & TAX avoidance schemes:-
NAIL is a money-go round...& the fact Gorton puts money in is a good way for him to "clean" his hedge fund earnings from TAX etc...plough money into so called "failing" companies...take it back out as "interest" & voila..nice clean tax free earnings...but that's my personal view...




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