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Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 06.34hrs on Tue 20 Nov 18
JollyDee Wrote:
You ain't paranoid. Look closer and you will see the interest is never paid - it just rolls up. I bet David is well aware it never will be paid.

Also have a look in your exercise into the huge funds he is paying into the old pension scheme to meet the pensions of those who worked there 30 years ago. Who else would/will do that?

OK, I'll bite.

So Gorton is allegedly not making any money from CG.
Neither is he making any effort to turn it into a functioning, never mind profitable, ski resort.

So what exactly is he doing then?

... I think Snowman's explanation sounds a whole lot more plausible.

Olderalan


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 10.18hrs on Tue 20 Nov 18
JollyDee Wrote:
You ain't paranoid. Look closer and you will see the interest is never paid - it just rolls up. I bet David is well aware it never will be paid.

Also have a look in your exercise into the huge funds he is paying into the old pension scheme to meet the pensions of those who worked there 30 years ago. Who else would/will do that?


The publicly available accounts for CML for the year ending 31.12.17 show that the pension fund contains 1,157,000 which is invested in a number of ways. During that year, the returns were 34,000, the company put 24,000 into the pension fund and the employees contributions were 2,000. That's a total of 60,000. Pension payments to retired employees were 53,000.
Suggesting that anyone is paying in huge funds to pay the pensions of those who worked there 30 years ago is demonstrably untrue.

Kind regards

Olderalan

JollyDee


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 14.27hrs on Wed 21 Nov 18
Page 5 in the 2 years 16 and 17 the company (aka David Gorton) added £280,000 because the scheme was underfunded.

SnowmanDave


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 15.55hrs on Wed 21 Nov 18
JollyDee Wrote:
Page 5 in the 2 years 16 and 17 the company (aka David Gorton) added £280,000 because the scheme was underfunded.


nothing on page 5 or section 5 in any accounts on the pensions scheme…& looking in the correct sections there is no large amounts from the company etc..only stuff is small amounts from the company as "employer & scheme member contributions"...


god knows what bits of paper you are looking at....but is certainly ain't the official lodged accounts at companies house...


& you still haven't answered how the CGML pension fund was plus £114,000 when NAIL first got it...& after the first year under NAIL it was MINUS £147,000....so a loss of £261,000...….



Come on Mr Gorton (JollyDee) you can do better than this....LOL

alan


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Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 16.05hrs on Wed 21 Nov 18
JollyDee Wrote:
Page 5 in the 2 years 16 and 17 the company (aka David Gorton) added £280,000 because the scheme was underfunded.


The scheme was in surplus pre Natural Retreats. Please tell me more?

alan


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Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 16.10hrs on Wed 21 Nov 18
Back to the subject of the Funicular. The initial report from the engineering consultants that was due early December now will not be received until 17th December due to weather delays with inspection of the Funicular structure.

The initial report was to have been followed by 2 weeks of discussions and then a week of review before a more final understanding of what the situation with the Funicular is. That will surely now slip into mid January with the Christmas and New Year holiday period, so no funicular over the holiday period looks inevitable. The comment on this push back is that there is absolutely nothing which can be done to expedite the process and bring forward the production of the engineering report.

Hipennine


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 16.19hrs on Wed 21 Nov 18
As far as I can see, JollyDee has failed to answer any of the questions that have been asked in response to his/her posts.

I've stopped feeding the troll.

TroutWrestler


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 18.45hrs on Wed 21 Nov 18
Have ANY season pass holders received ANY communication from CML/NR?

I haven't, and I am receiving no replies to my emails either.

bogbiker


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 21.10hrs on Wed 21 Nov 18
TroutWrestler Wrote:
Have ANY season pass holders received ANY communication from CML/NR?

I haven't, and I am receiving no replies to my emails either.


I emailed last week and cc’d Jannette Jansson - got a reply straight away that time after being ignored twice previously. I said I was still waiting for a refund. Her reply was that they are waiting for the report of the funicular to make an announcement to season pass holders. Surprise surprise... by the time the report is published and they have made any announcement, the season will be well under way and hence much harder to request any refund. Do we not use the season pass in the hope a refund is an option once a decision has been made?!



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 21.12hrs Wed 21 Nov 18 by bogbiker.

TroutWrestler


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 21.37hrs on Wed 21 Nov 18
I haven't picked ours up yet, and we are unlikely to be able to so so until there is viable skiing for a family of four including a 5 yo. That is why the train is so important to our skiing plans. Access to the Ptarmigan too.

I haven't directly asked for a refund. I want to know what the plan from CGM/NR is. Are they likely to seek support from ASSA, and offer All Area passes as a substitute?

If you treat current customers poorly and drive them into the arms of your competitors they are unlikely to return to you next season. The easiest customer should be a repeat customer.

If I buy, now at full price, a Glencoe pass and have a great season at the 'Coe, my family's Cairngorm days will be over. I fear they maybe already are.

alan


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Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 12.41hrs on Thu 22 Nov 18
If you bought your season passes during September I'd have a chat with trading standards. As I understand it CML were aware in the first week of September of the operating parameters that were enforced on the Funicular (no operation below 4°c and greatly reduced wind limit) - which meant it only run a handful of days in the month.

They continued to sell and promote early bird season passes despite the fact that fairly normal autumn weather meant the funicular was largely inoperable never mind winter weather. Yet they never let on and the extent of the restrictions only came to light after the funicular was completely closed in October - which incidentally was after the end of the early bird offer!

Unfortunately pre that date legally they probably can stand behind the T's & C's that state CML can close any uplift at any time for any reason! The case is much stronger in September though and people can also try credit card charge backs.

The more charge back requests that they are hit with the better!

Dirtboarder


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 13.01hrs on Thu 22 Nov 18
Would they be able to say that they will provide alternative uplift (whether they can provide it is a different matter) if the funicular is out of commission as a get out of jail free card?


Suilven


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 14.46hrs on Thu 22 Nov 18
alan Wrote:
JollyDee Wrote:
Page 5 in the 2 years 16 and 17 the company (aka David Gorton) added £280,000 because the scheme was underfunded.

The scheme was in surplus pre Natural Retreats. Please tell me more?


The muppet JollyDee was quoting the sum of the "Total Costs" line on page 18 (as numbered) of the 2017 CML accounts (£180k + £100k) without understanding that pensions costs can accrue without being funded by CML/NAIL, hence the scheme deficit grew over those years. The cash contribution amount paid by CML in 2017 is as Olderalan said and in black and white on page 19, £24k.

As for how the scheme is now in deficit after being in surplus in 2014 (so I'm told; haven't checked), it seems to be mainly down to actuarial assumptions: a decrease in the annual rate that future pension payments are discounted back to present-day values from 2.7% to 2.5% (this increases the present-day value of the future pensions to be paid), and an increase on the 'commutation factor' (the rate at which pension can be converted into lump sum cash) from 12.0 to 22.4. The old 12.0 figure seems very low and I'm wondering if it's a typo, but if correct this would also increase the company's pension liabilities.

Around 75% of the scheme's assets are held in bonds or cash in 2016 & 2017, therefore matching the liabilities, so NAIL can't IMO be accused of influencing anything risky or unusual with the assets.

[parkswatchscotland.co.uk]

growwild


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 22.59hrs on Thu 22 Nov 18
"CairnGorm Mountain Ltd retains the right to close all or any of the lifts at any time, for any reason."

That'll kill all appeals and it reads like they need money.. They'll probably offer vouchers for crap in their cafe that costs feck all tae produce and a discount on next years season pass while they'll claim for all the loss of earnings out the public pocket as the train would have been packed everyday and all that shite...

I'll be interested in how much snow they produce but I'd be pissed aff too if I bought a season pass

Hipennine


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 05.31hrs on Fri 23 Nov 18
growwild Wrote:
"CairnGorm Mountain Ltd retains the right to close all or any of the lifts at any time, for any reason."

That'll kill all appeals and it reads like they need money.. They'll probably offer vouchers for crap in their cafe that costs feck all tae produce and a discount on next years season pass while they'll claim for all the loss of earnings out the public pocket as the train would have been packed everyday and all that shite...

I'll be interested in how much snow they produce but I'd be pissed aff too if I bought a season pass


I woul;d think any good lawyer would provide advice about "Unfair Contract Terms". Certainly in England, this statement would be potentially in breach of the act.

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