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alan


Posts: 10750
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2nd Dec 2021
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HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 11.06hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
CairnGorm Mountain is set to receive 27m in investment over and above what it will cost to repair the stricken Funicular Railway in plans unveiled by HIE and will include an high capacity 3600 persons per hour Carpark Chairlift from Coire Cas.

However, the vision states that snowsports development in Coire na Ciste is unviable because CairnGorm doesn't have the market to support it - well that later part is true today because CML and HIE have spent years driving it away.

There is also a recommendation that the Funicular ceases to be a ski lift and is tailored to sightseers with limited snowsports use when ski school needs to take novices to the Ptarmigan Bowl.

Breaking News: [stv.tv]

More to follow....
SnowmanDave


Guest
Re: HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 11.25hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
OK so that's not a knee jerk reaction to the current SNAFU...LOL...

Nice for them to admit the snow/ski side needs serious development with involvement of the local businesses etc...


I've believe it when I see it, but in the mean time I'll hold them to their statements....
alan


Posts: 10750
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 23:28
2nd Dec 2021
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Re: HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 11.26hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18

Doug_Bryce


Guest
Re: HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 11.32hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
Had to check the date : April fools ?
However I think the 27 million is just a consultants proposal.
As opposed to actual commitment from HIE to spend the money.

Excuse my cynicism : sounds like obvious smoke screen. This '10 year plan' is designed to soften the breaking news that funicular is about to be condemned. Seems to be open secret most of the concrete pillars are cracked and it could cost 10 million to repair...

Proposed investment welcome and very much needed.
However: initial reaction....

1) Coire na Ciste is most naturally snow sure part of the mountain. To not include it in hypothetical investment of this scale would be act of total stupidity typical of HIE.

2) HIE again advocating preferential funding one Scottish ski area to detriment of the others?
Doug_Bryce


Guest
Re: HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 11.46hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
So : I think HIE paid 80K for this uplift review ?
[news.hie.co.uk]

Contract was tendered out in January.

In return for their money they now have a swanky you-tube video (which could have been knocked up in a few days) advocating some new chairlifts and a zip-line in Coire Cas. The proposed plans are so obviously flawed they don't even merit serious discussion : a chairlift to above ptarmigan at 3550ft !?!?

If you stop and think for a minute the goings on at Cairngorm are utterly mental.
Meanwhile the other resorts use the funds they have to actually invest in up-lift rather than make social media promotions.

Glenshee : Cairnwell chair and Baddoch chair
Glencoe : Coire Pollach poma plus new plateau chair to follow
Lecht : Snowy owl chairlift and new base station.
Nevis Range : Great Glen / Rob Roy. Bike trails and regular investment


SnowmanDave


Guest
Re: HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 11.55hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
Watched that..few points:-

Phase 1 1-5yrs
1. They are removing the following:- Fiacall Ridge Poma, Car Park T-bar, Coire Cas T-Bar.

2. replace with one high speed "6 person chair" lift to "improve uplift"...hmmmm this chairlift to go closer/higher up & under the Fiacall ridge..right where it has a tendency to avalanche!!...fecking idiots!!

3. new runs from the top position of new chair lift...

4. improve the existing walking paths???

5. snowmaking?

6. mountain coaster...basically where the day lodge/windy ridge is...

7.zip tour from new station at top of travers..zip lines across the cas to Fiacall ridge then back to windy ridge, then back across & down to new base station east of carpark....so I hope they will be able to stand up to the freezing winter gales of 100mph!....watch out for frozen ice chunks falling off them onto the ski run below!!..not to mention the heli's not liking them!!


Phase2 6-10yrs
8.remove the M1 poma

9. replace with another high speed "6 person chair" from midstation to new station near Marquis well.


10. new runs down from this new station down coronation wall

11. more snowmaking


12. bike trails down the whole of the Ciste/windy ridge/day lodge...

Phase 1 investment 16.5million


Phase 2 investment 10.5million


nice ideas, & about time too...but some of the routes etc are bad IMHO...especially ice chunks falling of the zip lines as they criss-cross above the ski runs....defo need to wear a helmet!...


Doug_Bryce


Guest
Re: HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 12.06hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
^ the plans are so flawed they don't even merit serious discussion.
a new chairlift to above the Ptarmigan t-bar : on windiest part of the hill.

it is more smoke-screen and another very expensive report from HIE.
these plans will never actually happen.

anyone remember the grand proposals announced 4 years ago when HIE awarded lease to Natural Retreats (see below). I want some of what these executives are smoking smoking smiley

[www.inthesnow.com]

[www.bbc.co.uk]



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 12.07hrs Wed 7 Nov 18 by Doug_Bryce.
alan


Posts: 10750
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 23:28
2nd Dec 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 12.24hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
There's a lot to digest in all that has lead us to the point of that video being released into the wild!

The positive aspect is that for the first time there is an acknowledgement that the lost uplift capacity is needed to maintain a viable snowsports business and that there needs to be a viable snowsports business to have a viable year round business on CairnGorm Mountain. Given the last 20 years of HIE's and CML's stewardship of the mountain that in itself is progress!

Leaving aside the proposals for Coire Cas for one moment though. The recommendations are restricted entirely to Coire Cas with no change in the Top Basin and a statement that redevelopment of snowsports in Coire na Ciste is now unviable.

How can there be any doubt that HIE's actions last summer in the removal of the Ciste infrastructure was a deliberate prejudicial action against the review of the mountain operations.

The West Wall Poma can not in itself adequately serve Coire na Ciste, children (and smaller adults) plus intermediate snowboarders who can happily ride the M2 just can't make it up the WWP and even for those that can ride the Poma here is why the West Wall Chairlift mattered in a single photo:



And in some numbers:

2010:
180 days - Ciste Gully skiable to old Chairlift boardwalk
57 days (32%) - West Wall Poma operated
68% of the time - Coire na Ciste without any uplift

2011:
140 days - Ciste Gully skiable to old Chairlift boardwalk
44 days (31%) - West Wall Poma operated
69% of the time - Coire na Ciste without any uplift

2013:
152 days - Ciste Gully skiable to old Chairlift boardwalk
52 days (34%) - West Wall Poma operated
66% of the time - Coire na Ciste without any uplift

2014:
131 days - Ciste Gully skiable to Chairlift boardwalk
14 days (11%) - West Wall Poma operated
89% of the time - Coire na Ciste without any uplift
alan


Posts: 10750
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 23:28
2nd Dec 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 12.27hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
Good point to remind everyone that the Aviemore and Glenmore Community Trust AGM is tomorrow (Thursday 8th November) at the Cairngorm Hotel in Aviemore. Full members, associate members and friends of the trust can all attend, though only full members living within in the PH22 postcode sector can vote.

Dunwerkin


Guest
Re: HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 12.33hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
This is utter utter tosh! Doesnt even warrant commenting upon!

The quicker HIE and NR are removed from power the better for all concerned!

Imo the funicular will never run again!

What a disaster!




SnowmanDave


Guest
Re: HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 12.46hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
alan Wrote:
There's a lot to digest in all that has lead us to the point of that video being released into the wild!

The positive aspect is that for the first time there is an acknowledgement that the lost uplift capacity is needed to maintain a viable snowsports business and that there needs to be a viable snowsports business to have a viable year round business on CairnGorm Mountain. Given the last 20 years of HIE's and CML's stewardship of the mountain that in itself is progress!



Its as if they have half heard what we have been talking about for god knows how long...then decided to randomly scatter the proposals/equipment on the map...with no thought/considerations etc...

don't worry that'll be in another "consultation""....

meanwhile no mention of the SNAFU that is the non working funicular & those costs...27million..that could easy disappear on that in the next 1-5yrs alone!!...
paulo


Guest
Re: HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 12.48hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
Doug_Bryce Wrote:
However I think the 27 million is just a consultants proposal.
As opposed to actual commitment from HIE to spend the money.



Yes. Quote on the BBC article says as much:



Charlotte Wright, HIE chief executive, said: "We are extremely grateful to all those who took part in this study. It is an excellent piece of work that presents a long-term vision for Cairngorm, which will be used to prioritise future investment.

"Clearly 27m, even over 10 years, is a large investment for a single resort, and funding is often the most challenging of all obstacles.

"However, the report certainly gives us all something to work towards





Guest
Re: HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 13.06hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
It's certainly not a perfect vision - I don't think anyone expected it to be.

But looking at the positives: HIE are now thinking about the right ideas (high capacity lifts, snowmaking, bike trails, alpine coaster, zip lines) albeit in the wrong places. Which is better than the previous plans, which were the wrong ideas in the wrong places. The amount of investment acknowledged is also welcome.

What actually gets built will change after consultations, environmental impacts etc. It may be possible for the public / locals to influence these changes along the lines of, "this looks good, but how about moving this chairlift a little bit to here, and it won't cost any more" etc. And HIE / NR may respond to that better than the previous approach, which was more like "this is terrible, here are some completely different ideas, and you have to spend lots of money to do it".




Edited 1 times. Last edit at 13.10hrs Wed 7 Nov 18 by denfinella.
cmorrison


Guest
Re: HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 13.06hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
paulo Wrote:
Doug_Bryce Wrote:

Charlotte Wright, HIE chief executive, said: "We are extremely grateful to all those who took part in this study. It is an excellent piece of work that presents a long-term vision for Cairngorm, which will be used to prioritise future investment.

"Clearly 27m, even over 10 years, is a large investment for a single resort, and funding is often the most challenging of all obstacles.

"However, the report certainly gives us all something to work towards



I suspect they will only have funding for steps 1 and 8.
jabuzzard


Guest
Re: HIE reveals 27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 13.47hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
SnowmanDave Wrote:
Watched that..few points:-

Phase 1 1-5yrs
1. They are removing the following:- Fiacall Ridge Poma, Car Park T-bar, Coire Cas T-Bar.

2. replace with one high speed "6 person chair" lift to "improve uplift"...hmmmm this chairlift to go closer/higher up & under the Fiacall ridge..right where it has a tendency to avalanche!!...fecking idiots!!

3. new runs from the top position of new chair lift...


Right so you rip out the Corie Cas T-bar/Fiacall Ridge Poma and replace with a high speed six pack from the car park. Hum, better hope that snowmaking works well because if it doesn't then there NO uplift in the Cas apart from the funicular and well recent events show relying on that particualr piece of infrastructure is fool hardy to say the least.

There basically appears to be two issues with the review. Firstly it was done without the knowledge that the funicular has serious design and construction issues that is going to require a very expensive repair and might well be beyond economic repair.

Secondly the review seems to have been done without full local knowledge. That is things like putting a chair terminal in an avalanche zone, and assuming top to bottom cover is reliable. I guess you could stick a couple of snow factories at the Shelling and hope for the best.

The result is the review fails to address the lack of mid mountain uplift, that is the main problem. The secondary problem is that it ignores the Ciste which is the most snow sure and the best intermediate/advanced skiing on the mountain.

In my view the first thing that needs to happen is that everyone involved in the decision to remove the chairs in the Ciste needs to be sacked for gross incompetence and bringing the "firm" into disrepute. You could certainly make a case for that. Though frankly I suspect just folding HIE (they loose their jobs that way) and starting afresh with new people might make more sense.



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