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brianwr


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Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 18.33hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
A Glenmore gondola would be much better for the mtb part of the plan. You could put some cracking long trails down through the forest with very low visual impact.
alan


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2nd Dec 2021
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Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 19.39hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
Just realised on rewatching the video that the Ptarmigan Tow is removed... Leaving just the Ciste T-bar for the Top Basin.


TroutWrestler


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Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 20.02hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
IMO what would be best is 2 chair lines, with mid-station access/egress.

One with one mid station via Cas CP --> Sheiling area --> M1 topstation.

One with 2 possible midstations Ciste CP --> base of WW --> base of Ciste T Bar --> Ptarmigan Traverse piste, adjacent to Ptarmigan Restaurant.

Similar to what was there before, only betterer...
SnowmanDave


Guest
Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 20.10hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
alan Wrote:
Just realised on rewatching the video that the Ptarmigan Tow is removed... Leaving just the Ciste T-bar for the Top Basin.



I was dubious about this ..you could think that they only highlight existing tows near to the ones to be removed...

open in "interpretation"...
oldagedpredator


Guest
Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 20.46hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
Some how 'us' as in them was missed from the list of issues, Seems the Cairngorms has grown a bit geographically speaking from some of the photos.

I was hoping it was going to show the Gondola was go. Not convinced about the zip trekking in that location. I would have thought bike trails and toboggan run are better keep in the trees from the Ciste base station down. There are probably better bike trail locations closer to Aviemore.

Cas Quad seems a good idea. Cant see how the phase 2 chair would be a go-er, yes from a ski access point its and improvement but landscape and structures on the plateau not convinced.

Thought Doug's Aviemore - Glenmore train idea is a good one (is that on here or snow heads). Perhaps something more Swiss light rail / tram.



growwild


Guest
Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 21.33hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
"Alanís alternative of a Glenmore gondola seems so much more appealing, environmentally friendly and attractive from a visitor perspective. The cycling, zip lines, toboggan runs, car parks, bus service, accommodation etc would ultimately be much more appropriate below the level of Corrie Cas and down on the forest floor"

This would work and would bring in more visitors in crap weather in most seasons.. Using chairs up above would be more efficient for the obvious reasons though I'd find the balance between wind and use decent t-bars for the rest..

Their plan has plenty of decent ideas with a few issues that can be easily sorted if people thought of solutions instead of complaining for what sounds like the sake of preserving by gone days.. The train has never been fit for purpose either but can be used if it's worth fixing that is...

Whats the buy out mobs long term proposal? I'd take some of HIE's proposals and work them tae suit after seeing what others who know what they are talking say but one of the chairs would be in the ciste. Dunno if that would be accessed by boarding down fae the tap or I'd let public drive up and have access rds coming aff for cool cabins tae bring in some coin.. I'd really wanna close the road tae public for that mountain experience and all that selling shit talk, folk get that feeling at Nevis and a little bit of it at Glencoe so it works and adds to it all, plus some more coin for all the issues with access on a shitty road...

Somebody make a few vids that the pish and some should make vids or get drawings made up of how it'd work, ideally the proposal and save the ciste rebels as it'd be good tae see what their plans are that can get the public 'needing it'. Nae shitty squiggly lines on google maps either, the full hog, a bit like call of duty if its a video - fae glenmore up and around with accommodation, lifts and new runs tae balance out the q back at the new chair's and loads of trees, bulldozers and boom boom and are allowed pre design..



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 21.35hrs Wed 7 Nov 18 by growwild.
SnowmanDave


Guest
Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 21.47hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
SE group who were the consultants on this....USA based of course...like certain NAIL companies....

[segroup.com]

they have done some ski resort stuff:-

[segroup.com]

But it might help if they had seen the place & understood it...
JC


Guest
Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 22.29hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
alan Wrote:
Just realised on rewatching the video that the Ptarmigan Tow is removed... Leaving just the Ciste T-bar for the Top Basin.



I noticed that too, but there was no 'removal graphic', unlike those used for all the other Cas draglifts. Just added to the lack of awareness/knowledge throughout the whole video of the reality of what skiing at CG is.

My favourite idiot line from the Exec summary document is in the middle of this:

"Existing surface lift tracks are problematic. They are difficult to ride and maintain and they rely on proper snow coverage...."

"They also take up space that could be used for skiing." eye rolling smiley

Followed by "Snow fencing is crucial to operations at Cairngorm and the system should be used and upgraded as necessary to consistently provide snow on the slopes and reduce snow drifting."

confused smiley

They have no idea what they're talking about.

I'm glad of the proposed investment but as others have said, this needs no more HIE involvement and CG can't afford a repeat of the disastrous investment in the Funicular. With that amount of money onoffer, there's a real opportunity here to do something that would be of long-standing value, I'd be in favour of the Glenmore gondola option.





Edited 1 times. Last edit at 22.31hrs Wed 7 Nov 18 by JC.
ML


Guest
Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 22.59hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
I know that cairngorm doesn't have a good track record with plans/prommisses and has done a lot of bad and stupid things over the past decade.

But if any other resort proposed this plan, we wouldn't blow all the negative parts out op proportion. I have the feeling that some posters are saying 'no' just because it's cairngorm.

Let's keep a open mind shall we.
JC


Guest
Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 23.22hrs on Wed 7 Nov 18
Forgetting about opening up the Ciste for now, these are some 'summer' improvements that would generate income with the Gondola:

~ Multiple MTB trails down to a Gondola base station, possibly also one or two starting at the Ptarmigan down the Aonach ridge with Cas/Ciste options. It's 1000ft descent from the Cas base to Loch Morlich, loads of scope to build a great MTB centre through the forest.

~ Similarly, a zip line down the Allt Mor from the Cas base station. As zip lines go, they're definitely more fun flying in proximity to trees. Higher up, as has been mentioned, it's not a good thing for Helicopters or Paraskiers/gliders to have to negotiate.

~ Forget about a 'mountain roller coaster'. It'll destroy the Day Lodge glades skiing area, and it'll also be an eyesore. Instead utilise the existing DLP to allow a summer sledge uptrack to access a twin Rodelbahn or Rutschbahn back down to the Cas base. There are plenty of these in low lying Alpine areas and in winter they're buried beneath the snow.






Doug_Bryce


Guest
Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 08.40hrs on Thu 8 Nov 18
[b] Thought Doug's Aviemore - Glenmore train idea is a good one (is that on here or snow heads). Perhaps something more Swiss light rail / tram.


Yip : If we are talking £27 million projects then why not think big...

Make Glenmore a carfree zone. Extend the steam train from Aviemore to Loch Morlich. Build a Glenmore gondola, via Ciste, which could be used all year round by hikers, bikers, skiers.

Would cost mega-bucks : but give Scotland a proper national park to be proud of.
rtj1211


Guest
Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 08.45hrs on Thu 8 Nov 18
There will be a 200 page written report too, but a 3 minute video is more amenable to those who want a quick summary.

For £80k there should have been an options analysis included with recommendations emerging from the most favoured option.
rtj1211


Guest
Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 09.08hrs on Thu 8 Nov 18
That is just the Executive Summary.

Full Report is probably 200 pages.
rtj1211


Guest
Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 09.27hrs on Thu 8 Nov 18
The firm who did the work do have extensive experience in ski-ing operations, just not in Scotland.
alan


Posts: 10750
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 23:28
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Re: HIE reveals £27m 'new vision' for CairnGorm Mountain Ltd
Date Posted: 09.55hrs on Thu 8 Nov 18
rtj1211 Wrote:
That is just the Executive Summary.

Full Report is probably 200 pages.


And it's not an Executive Summary written by SE Group, but one written by HIE. The Press and Journal has printed that they asked for the full report to review for today's paper, but the request was refused. HIE says they can't release the full report as it is confidential but an edited version maybe released at some future date.

Given the current mess on CairnGorm HIE need to be totally transparent here and release the full report, what are they hiding, is it confidential because the full report being public would result in red faces at HIE and CairnGorm Mountain Ltd?

HIE needs to release the full report as submitted by SE Group, not a sanitised version that fits with HIE and CMLs past decisions. Otherwise they will be buried under an avalanche of FOI requests from the media and other interested parties who'll pursue every FOI right up to the Information Commissioner and the truth will out one nibble at a time!
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