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pyke13


Guest
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 21.05hrs on Thu 29 Nov 18
Well don't buy it then
kammy


Guest
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 00.18hrs on Fri 30 Nov 18
Well not very good news, this was bound to happen with all the shambles going on, Hopefully a new operator will be found and take the Ski centre forward.

Marty


Guest
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 01.15hrs on Fri 30 Nov 18
Time for the Scottish Government to step in to allow a local community solution?

If little used, loss making airports are worth it...
ESD1711


Guest
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 06.37hrs on Fri 30 Nov 18
Short term pain hopefully for long term gain.

Feel massive sympathy for all those directly impacted in the area - its going to be a long tough winter for many i'm sure.

But - if theres a plus side, it surely has to be the 'ding dong the witch is dead' moment. Heres hoping that something good can come of this and maybe the right people in charge of the place can make good things happen.
Doug_Bryce


Guest
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 08.56hrs on Fri 30 Nov 18
ESD1711 Wrote:
But - if theres a plus side, it surely has to be the 'ding dong the witch is dead' moment. Heres hoping that something good can come of this and maybe the right people in charge of the place can make good things happen.


Actually the opposite is true.

HIE have said they will take back control and are being presented by media / MPs as the saviour who will protect jobs and Cairngorm running... In short term there is little other option.

However lets remember that it is HIEs funicular obsession that got us into this mess. They are utterly obsessed with making the choo-choo a success, and justifying their investment, even if that means sacrificing other parts of the business (such as Coire na Ciste).

In 2008 we were in this exact same position The funicular couldn't make money - in my opinion because the closed system limited repeat summer custom. Therefore HIE had to step in. However the funicular remains an inherently flawed project.

2008 : Probe into ‘scandal’ of Cairngorm railway funding
[www.robedwards.com]

2008 : Public body to take over Cairn Gorm railway company
[www.grough.co.uk]

In 2010 a parliamentary committee even criticised HIE in the strongest possible terms over misuse of public funds on Cairngorm during funicular construction.

2010 : The Scottish Parliament’s public audit committee has seriously criticised Highlands and Islands Enterprise for lax practices which saw the eventual cost of the project spiral to £26.75m.
[www.grough.co.uk]

So where are we 10 years after HIE took control of the assets? The ski area is much reduced (11 lifts instead of 17 lifts). The Ciste has been destroyed and the White lady t-bar gone. Worryingly it is an open secret the funicular has 20 cracked concrete pillars. To fix this may mean complete removal of the track and cost £10 million. No doubt HIE will plough this money in, arguably to the detriment of funding the other 4 Scottish Ski areas. Nothing has changed for the better in last decade and lessons not been learned.

The sudden removal of Coire na Ciste lifts summer was clearly driven and supported by existing HIE CEO Charlotte Wright.

2017 : Interview: HIE CEO Charlotte Wright on why the CairnGorm ski lifts had to go
[www.scotsman.com]

Meanwhile HIE just magic-ed up £1 million for snow making machines (which wont solve the broken funicular problem) when they could simply have reinstated the ciste chairs for an estimated 400K.

Lets be clearly that the rot lies deep. Until real political pressure is applied then the same mistakes will be made once again. For reasons I can not fathom HIE seem impervious to previous errors and outside political pressure. Holyrood tried to restructure the entire organisation and met with stone wall resistance...

Answers on a postcard ?



Edited 3 times. Last edit at 09.04hrs Fri 30 Nov 18 by Doug_Bryce.
Gorminator


Guest
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 09.22hrs on Fri 30 Nov 18
ALLTOTALLY TRUE DOUG !

And the A&GCT are making a seriously BIG Mistake now that they have climbed into bed with HIE !

Susan Smith's first words at a hastily arranged Press meet in the Gorm car park late yesterday afternoon......

"WE ARE WHERE WE ARE"

Well, Ms Smith.......We are where we are, because YOU and your Colleagues appointed Natural Retreats, knowing full well that they would be the ideal Mob to comprehensively aid this secret agenda you are hell bent on pursuing for Cairngorm and it's future !!!!!
Beastie


Guest
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 10.50hrs on Fri 30 Nov 18
Marty Wrote:

If little used, loss making airports are worth it...


My thoughts exactly. Cairngorm is far from an economic basket case if managed in the interests of snowsports!
Altaholic


Guest
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 14.05hrs on Sat 1 Dec 18
There is a long section on the Radio Scotland "Out of Doors" podcast today (from BBC Sounds) that covers the situation at Cairngorm. It starts 34 mins in. Hopefully things are looking positive for the future.

If there is good snow and things are running it will be back on my list to visit, as the local area needs the support.
TroutWrestler


Guest
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 15.01hrs on Sat 1 Dec 18
Beastie Wrote:

Cairngorm is far from an economic basket case if managed in the interests of snowsports!


I agree that Cairngorm should be managed in the interests of Snowsports, but that does not mean that it should not be managed in the interests of year-round sustainable tourism, with encouraging return visitors being a priority.

With HIE's £27 Million vision, i feel the arrow has been fired in the right general direction, just it has landed nowhere near the target. If they are prepared to signal the start of the 'charge' are they capable/able/prepared to lead it and see it through?

On the MTB front, Nevis falls short as the uplift does not offer access to trails with variety and progression. This is ESSENTIAL to garner repeat customers. True, the World Cup DH is world class, and the Top Chief trail is superb, but neither are accessible to the majority, families, etc.

If CG pursues biking, they should offer trails at differing grades, but crucially, a number of available trails at each grade, to allow for variety on the part of the user, but also closure for maintenance, and the draw of something-new-to-do-next-time-I-visit.

CG need to be developed in a way that it offers a number of different user groups a number of different reasons to continually return. I would support a number of changes, including a managed relaxation of the closed system.

I don't feel the Ptarmigan Building should be the priority in terms of building works, and the planning application for the "enhancement" is now, I hope, dead in the water.
Beastie


Guest
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 16.03hrs on Sat 1 Dec 18
Aye sorry I didn't mean snowsports to the exclusion of all else.

Just that the policy of forcing people onto the funicular to make it look like a success (aka core lift) has comprehensively failed and any management going forward need to look at the other areas and take a leaf out of their books as far as diversifying the uplift.
CMartindale


Guest
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 20.26hrs on Sat 1 Dec 18
The funicular has clearly failed to be a year round profitable attraction. I'd like to see a study undertaken to cost the removal of the it, and replacing it with two - simple - four person chairlifts that could be used for summer mountain biking operations with provision for an alpine coaster, zip line, etc. etc.

If it is indeed £10m to repair it, as Doug said above.

And for arguments sake £8m to remove the track, retaining the buildings. Leaving change for new lifts...

What would you want?




TroutWrestler


Guest
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 20.50hrs on Sat 1 Dec 18
If I was starting from scratch I would install a Telemix. Best of all worlds.

Bunch of Grannies looking of cake? No problem!
Bunch of wee kids in ski school? No problem!
Family on a fun day out? No problem!
Telemarker can't be arsed removing skis? No problem!
Ski on-ski off Daniel Son? No problem!
Feeling a bit beat up and want sheltered sit and a rest? No problem!
Need to shift customers up or downhill? No problem!

[www.poma.net]
rtj1211


Guest
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 13.01hrs on Sun 2 Dec 18
pyke13 Wrote:
Any idea on what it would cost to buy it outright?
Would a euromillions win tomorrow night (46 million) be enough to buy everything, ie the land, buildings,access road and all the machinery Ect and get the place back up and running?
Ok this season might not be great but by next winter the train set could be repaired AND a ciste chair lift installed. The environmental damage could be offset by the gondola idea.


It depends what you define as 'it'.

There is the uplift infrastructure. There are the refreshment/hygiene facilities. There is the land, the car parks etc.

Right now, 'it' is probably a leasehold to manage outdoor pursuits on Cairngorm.

A visionary developer would want to own the land down to Glenmore so they would at least control decision-making. Yes, they might have to engage with Environmental groups as well as winter sports groups. But at least the operators would be in control of capex, maintenance budgets etc.

The cost of 'it' under that scenario will be tens of millions more than merely taking over a leasehold set up.
Hipennine


Guest
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 16.24hrs on Mon 3 Dec 18
Jamie Smith if Ice Factor and Chill Factor to the rescue?


[www.bbc.co.uk]
alan


Posts: 10750
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 23:28
2nd Dec 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Cairngorm put into administration....
Date Posted: 17.36hrs on Mon 3 Dec 18
Hipennine Wrote:
Jamie Smith if Ice Factor and Chill Factor to the rescue?




Rearrange: pigeons cat the amongst!

Is there any more to this than publicity generation to get the snow factor and ice factor in people’s minds just as the season is about to begin?
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