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alan


Posts: 10750
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 23:28
2nd Dec 2021
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CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 22.31hrs on Mon 17 Dec 18
The links below contain the main document submitted to HIE by SE Group with respect to their review of CairnGorm and a second document containing the maps which related to sections of the main report.

Report: [www.winterhighland.info] .

Maps: [www.winterhighland.info] .

Happy bedtime reading!
ML


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 23.12hrs on Mon 17 Dec 18
Might not be what some people think is the best thing. However I find it a well thought out and fair report. The Ciste part, while many will not like it, is fair.

Give Cairngorm a fair chance, if they follow this report you will get a alpine-level of lift comfort + the planned amount of snowmaking could guarentee a lot of terrain.

We can say they are going to axe all the existing lifts, but I'm sorry, they are very, very old and just not comfortable anymore. This plan is comprehensive and I think we should give it a fair chance.
growwild


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 00.21hrs on Tue 18 Dec 18
"Resorts must take into consideration the relatively lower income of some Millennials and their financial limitations to boost participation from this age cohort. By contrast, more affluent Millennials are spending money on luxurious experiences that they feel are worth the time and investment. As they are less likely to have families and own homes, they typically have a considerable amount of dispensable income to put into experiences and products. Distinctive ski areas have an opportunity to bring in high income Millennial skiers and snowboarders who are seeking a unique experience"

They gonna have a poor chairlift and a shiny one for the asshats ?

Don't like the ciste base station reasoning but more or less agree it should be ignored and probably looked at mid way of after their proposed upgrades. Not much said about what the actual 'terrain improvements', they taking dozers tae try and Glencoe the place?

Seems pretty sensible apart fae the above and giving cairngorms ski-jackboot patrol explosives, find some good hearted souls for the boom boom!

Still, too many resorts in Scotland me thinks..........
WickRatson


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 10.46hrs on Tue 18 Dec 18
Duplicate. Woops



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 10.48hrs Tue 18 Dec 18 by WickRatson.
WickRatson


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 10.48hrs on Tue 18 Dec 18

Generally speaking, I hole heartedly disagree that the ciste is the answer to Cairngorms problems. It comes with many issues especially the point that the terrain is not suitable for begginers. What save the ciste put forward with regards a beginner area especially.

I would disagree that Cairngorm would need to replicate every services there though and I do think a chair down to this area would be a great asset. I think with carrying out surfacing works, ticket office, snow fences, and a snow factory it can lend it to opening the resort earlier, and relieve a huge amount of quing in the cas. Financial benefit may be slim though. It would open a huge amount of epic, advanced terrain.

Moving on with what's proposed though I actually love... I think having three chairs and a couple of drag lifts to serve the entire area would help no end. It would mean more skiing time, and less queing time. Opening up the corrination headwall can be epic to. I'd love to hit down those red/blacks.
Cairngorm Skier


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 10.53hrs on Tue 18 Dec 18
Yet another attempt to slag of Cairngorm by Whingehighland! All meaningless drivel because the train will run as normal this season.


jabuzzard


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 11.11hrs on Tue 18 Dec 18
ML Wrote:
Might not be what some people think is the best thing. However I find it a well thought out and fair report. The Ciste part, while many will not like it, is fair.


The problem is that the Ciste represents the best skiing for intermediate and advanced skiers on the mountain. Without it Cairngorm is unattractive to a large number of skiers who would rather go elsewhere if it is not open. Further the Ciste gully has some of the best snow holding on the mountain.

It further misses the point that to achieve the skier levels in the report you have to operate a the Ciste Car Park with a shuttle bus. Well unless you point in a gondola from Glenmore.

Also the 8000 skiers for a second base seems to miss the opportunity to use modern technology to reduce the staffing requirements for a base station. In particular hands free lift passes that can be "recharged" using a mobile phone, and ticket dispensing machines could significantly reduce man power required to operate the base. I have long said a Scotland wide system would be a huge boost to the skiing experience in Scotland. That is I have a single hands free pass that via a single app on my phone I can charge up for a days use at any of the resorts, with the money being routed to the appropriate resort.

Finally a significant proportion of Cairngorms users would happily recharge their hands free pass using their mobile phones and then jump on a chairlift out the Ciste with their own skis or ones hired down the mountain, in preference to getting to the Cas. Heck if I could do that I would likely never visit the Cas side of the mountain.

But hey these numpties have placed the terminal for the phase one chairlift right where it will get avalanched. Why would I give credence to anything they have to say?
awrightski


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 11.47hrs on Tue 18 Dec 18
jabuzzard Wrote:
ML Wrote: But hey these numpties have placed the terminal for the phase one chairlift right where it will get avalanched. Why would I give credence to anything they have to say?


Could this not be mitigated with Avalanche fencing like in the Alps?
geeo


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 11.55hrs on Tue 18 Dec 18
Cairngorm Skier Wrote:
Yet another attempt to slag of Cairngorm by Whingehighland! All meaningless drivel because the train will run as normal this season.



Johnny Barr, don't hide behind a guest account, then post the same thing on facebook because it's quite obvious who you are..

Do you have some info regarding the train or is it just more drivel like your post?

WickRatson


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 12.10hrs on Tue 18 Dec 18
awrightski Wrote:
jabuzzard Wrote:
ML Wrote: But hey these numpties have placed the terminal for the phase one chairlift right where it will get avalanched. Why would I give credence to anything they have to say?

Could this not be mitigated with Avalanche fencing like in the Alps?



It can, there are many ways safety can be achieved. People are completely overreacting on this point.
paulo


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 12.20hrs on Tue 18 Dec 18
ML Wrote:


Give Cairngorm a fair chance, if they follow this report you will get a alpine-level of lift comfort + the planned amount of snowmaking could guarentee a lot of terrain.



That's a big if. Are they really going to be able to secure the estimated 27m to implement all this ??
alan


Posts: 10750
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 23:28
2nd Dec 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 13.17hrs on Tue 18 Dec 18
WickRatson Wrote:

It can, there are many ways safety can be achieved. People are completely overreacting on this point.


The really big natural slides in Scotland often go during the big storms or as they are beginning to ease. Thus in conditions when no-one would be doing avalanche control on the Headwall or even be in Coire Cas.

The Cas Tow bullwheel even with how far it is setback from the Headwall has been hit twice. Large avalanche barriers would have the potential at least to play havoc with the snow distribution on the Upper Cas.

However the main question about this proposed 1st new chairlift is what is the difference in operational reliability of a lift terminating on the lower Zig Zags vs upper Zig Zags or top of the Cas. On the ground the difference in wind exposure from the top Zig Zag to the bottom corner of the Zig Zags can be very marked.

The truth is no one knows and before 5 to 7m was committed to such a lift wind recording equipment should be put on every downline tower of the Cas T-bar to get hard data to answer that question with solid empirical evidence.


01cookjk


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 13.37hrs on Tue 18 Dec 18
alan Wrote:

The truth is no one knows and before 5 to 7m was committed to such a lift wind recording equipment should be put on every downline tower of the Cas T-bar to get hard data to answer that question with solid empirical evidence.



Thats not a half bad idea. Same goes with the M1, thought you'd need to add some extra posts near the summit!


01cookjk


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 13.43hrs on Tue 18 Dec 18
jabuzzard Wrote:

The problem is that the Ciste represents the best skiing for intermediate and advanced skiers on the mountain. Without it Cairngorm is unattractive to a large number of skiers who would rather go elsewhere if it is not open. Further the Ciste gully has some of the best snow holding on the mountain.

It further misses the point that to achieve the skier levels in the report you have to operate a the Ciste Car Park with a shuttle bus. Well unless you point in a gondola from Glenmore.

Also the 8000 skiers for a second base seems to miss the opportunity to use modern technology to reduce the staffing requirements for a base station. In particular hands free lift passes that can be "recharged" using a mobile phone, and ticket dispensing machines could significantly reduce man power required to operate the base. I have long said a Scotland wide system would be a huge boost to the skiing experience in Scotland. That is I have a single hands free pass that via a single app on my phone I can charge up for a days use at any of the resorts, with the money being routed to the appropriate resort.


I think the crucial bit that SE group has missed and overlooked about not considering the ciste for re-development is that if there proposed upgrades go ahead, then no doubt the skier numbers will once again climb, provided the resort is run properly, at that point then yes, the need for a 2nd access point will be justified.

My point is that there is that demand will rise simply by opening stuff up, and an infinite cycle of increasing or decreasing demand with be the result of increased development and opening or axing lifts and not opening them.

Either way, I'm happy to see the mention of a chair in the bowl (phase3 lift) and feel that that could be a positive, though I can't imagine it operating that much due to wind.
jabuzzard


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Mountain - SE Group Report - Read it here!
Date Posted: 13.52hrs on Tue 18 Dec 18
01cookjk Wrote:
I think the crucial bit that SE group has missed and overlooked about not considering the ciste for re-development is that if there proposed upgrades go ahead, then no doubt the skier numbers will once again climb, provided the resort is run properly, at that point then yes, the need for a 2nd access point will be justified.


I think it is more nuanced than that. If you don't open the Ciste up/improve it then your chances of achieving the proposed numbers are somewhere around h.
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