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alan


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2nd Dec 2021
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Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 16.52hrs on Wed 19 Dec 18
Itís just been announced that CairnGorm day passes are going to be £27.75 instead of planned £37. Season Pass purchasers particularly those who purchased in September are going to be even more hacked off at the way this has unfolded.

It has to be said I think people who keep telling others to be positive and supportive of CairnGorm at the moment need to consider how all this is playing out with the other areas.

The other areas have to make it all work or thereís no pay cheque to put food on the table. The CML team seem to be immune to financial gravity, time and time again HIE has rewarded CML for failure.

£1m of snow making bought outright by HIE for the sole use of CairnGorm, while the Lecht and Glencoe only got partial support. Now CML has been phoenixed and is back in HIE ownership minus debt to suppliers and creditors, and is suddenly with taxpayer ££££ behind it able to slash its lift pass price by almost a tenner.

That is simply an unacceptable abuse of its posistion by HIE and serious questions about unfair and potentially unlawful state aid need asked.







Edited 2 times. Last edit at 16.55hrs Wed 19 Dec 18 by alan.
jabuzzard


Guest
Re: Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 17.33hrs on Wed 19 Dec 18
The public ownership in of itself is probably illegal state aid. Remember the UK had to get special permission to take RBS, HBoS and the rest into public ownership back in 2008. The last time it happened nobody was complaining so they got away with it.

It would be like Alpes d'Huez going bust and been taken over by the French state, slashing a 1/4 of lift prices while Les Deux Alpes had to stand on their own two feet.

However you could argue with the limited uplift they could not charge the £37 previous full price anymore.

Beastie


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Re: Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 17.46hrs on Wed 19 Dec 18
I agree with jabuzzard, they could hardly continue charging full whack for half a hill's uplift.
Mountainaddict


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Re: Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 18.01hrs on Wed 19 Dec 18
Imagine the response on here if they'd left the price at £37...

Surely visitor numbers will be decimated regardless - to the benefit of the other ski areas?

It's the overall local economy that I feel sorry for and am inclined to support through a visit or two to Cairngorm - possibly starting with some ski touring next weekend....
alan


Posts: 10750
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2nd Dec 2021
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Re: Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 18.16hrs on Wed 19 Dec 18
Beastie Wrote:
I agree with jabuzzard, they could hardly continue charging full whack for half a hill's uplift.


A modest reduction in light of circumstances would be proportional and was expected. Slashing the day ticket price to be below all four commercial areas standard price is a different matter.

It also rubs season pass holders noses in it. There are vastly conflicting rumours swirling about regards the Funicular, but it sounds like the initial report isnít yet complete.

If the funicular doesnít run in any meaningful sense this season, thatís a big hit on capacity amplified by people trying to get up surface tows beyond their ability. This as well as being an abuse of its posistion by HIE could backfire quite spectacularly if itís actually successful!
Beastie


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Re: Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 18.24hrs on Wed 19 Dec 18
Agree re: season ticket holders who at this point really should be getting offered a refund if they so wish and if not then a substantial rebate.

Nonetheless, every other centre's going to have a better season than cairngorm even if they're more expensive. I have no idea why cairngorm continues to get the support it gets for an inferior experience and that should be looked at of course.

You'll need to abduct the Ewings first obviously.
snmartin


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Re: Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 20.43hrs on Wed 19 Dec 18
As a ticket holder I am not in the slightest put out by the ticket prices. I will still have good value for my ticket. The staff will, Iím sure do their best to make it work for the customers.
Pity other people just canít be happy that the place will be open when the natural snow arrives.
Mountainaddict


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Re: Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 21.03hrs on Wed 19 Dec 18
Totally agree re season ticket holders. In view of no funicular and the day ticket price decrease, they should have the option of either:
- Full refund.
- Hefty rebate.
Shredandjammy


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Re: Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 21.14hrs on Wed 19 Dec 18
Or a free/reduced one for next year?
alan


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Re: Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 22.35hrs on Wed 19 Dec 18
Shredandjammy Wrote:
Or a free/reduced one for next year?


Would be easier to do as not requiring funds to allocate to rebates / refunds. However for families and those who bought season tickets but will be able to make next to no use of them if the Funicular doesn't run - that doesn't help them this season.

The manor in which events unfolded with early bird passes continuing to be pushed through September and CML keeping mum about the actual constraints on the funicular leaves more than a bad taste and I fully understand how some pass holders are raging. Through September just linguistic gymnastics about 'restricting the scope of our operating parameters' and then boom once the early bird deadline was past - Funicular closed indefinitely and company then goes into administration and it comes out the Funicular couldn't run below 4°c in September.

For local pass holders who are competent skiers and riders able to access the entire mountain via any lift, and get up many days and often part of days the price differential is much less meaningful. There are many other advantages to a season pass, straight to lift, ski any part of the day without having to adhere to AM or PM tickets, discount catering, not constrained by ticket sale suspensions etc.

However for the marginal break even season ticket purchaser who has to travel a long way it's a big shift in the break even point and for families and others who bought because of the Funicular - their passes may be effectively rendered useless to them if it doesn't run.
alan


Posts: 10750
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2nd Dec 2021
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Re: Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 22.41hrs on Wed 19 Dec 18
Actually this might be completely off the wall, and might have all sorts of implications - but instead of opening pandoras box by starting to offer full refunds, if HIE put up a pot of money that gave CML pass holders the option of converting their pass to another area of their choice and funds were credited to the areas as tickets were converted.

This would let people who really don't have a useful pass if the funicular doesn't run convert it to something potentially more useful and lesson the sense that there is a taxpayer backed price undercutting going on!
growwild


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Re: Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 04.53hrs on Thu 20 Dec 18
If were HIE I'd offer vouchers for accommodation and grub in the local area if they are going guarantee snow tae season pass holders or refunds if requested and offer everyone thats spent a 10% discount on next years passes, that are reduced awready tae bring in more punters...

Personally if I was captain of the 'new' company running the show I'd let the season pass holders slide aboot for a season free as it's probably a different company that are on the passes they've bought and that aw went tae fook.. Maybe I'd let them have a free re-fill a' juice and a packet of skins. The trains would be out and snow would be pushed up tae gain access through the open door for a puff out the wind, place would be rocking...

Who in the ski industry lobbies they fecking socialist right wingers in edinburgh?

If its just HIE that holds the cards then their fecked and it cairngorm and probably one other out west and the rest will get shavings to play with unless the resorts come outta HIE and into a department in the 'government' for tourism and a health department and if they guarantee snow they get a wee slice out the education budget too..

All it's their now it appears is money to advertise the whats all ready in Scotland and very little if any tae invest in new, yet they say tourism is "5% of total Scottish GDP" and "8.5% of employment in the country." They can easily up both numbers by spending on the resorts with public money proportionally for winter and summer, planning needs tae change too for some base areas (the works) and land moved for summer and winter use. A whole different level of thinking is needed and the current system and bunch of 'voted' in eejits fronting the system and HIE aint capable...

[www.gov.scot]

Prices have always been too high and if its gonna be a war with snow making then some have deffo gotta get accommodation sorted close by, cheap and comfortable tae target a different market with their snow but it's pish that cairngorms is the only the one tae get enough snow for a few runs and access up top open in a short time if the weathers right...

A few mountains and hills developed and spent on in Scotland would bring in good money, should have happened years ago but it's not too late and public money should be spent on cool stuff tae bring back in coin and for health and chill out space..

Till multidimensional thought and real investment in 'new' tourism here it's a price and snow machine war on the mountains and hills of Scotland with too big tae fail giving the rest the finger and a dangleberry fae its owners now and again tae balance the investment pins on the map. It's shite, gotta get used tae and unless something changes then Aviemore will be on the map again and will be a decent destination if something like their plans for the slopes happens and will continue tae get investment as they'll draw the crowds.. They get press coverage and that'll grow if they open a chunk with something this season then it'll continue with their investment and keep snowballing till whatever it becomes...

Aw that pish being said, it sucks for people that have no need for tows and slashing the price looks like the trains oot thsi season, maybe not and it's a move... I think they'll do awright out this and it should be a decent place tae go tae if ya can handle tows. Through the week should be quiet enough, weekends could be rammed start of the season.. I've been thinking about aviemore for a few days here and there if HIE make use of what they have bought and pump snow out, I doubt I'm the only one thinking that..

I feel sorry for the other resorts that need tae earn the money they need tae survive let alone invest fairly regular. Because of the snow making this mob got and the fact they can take a hit on the price I'm raging but the prices are a bit much in Scotland for a few reasons and I think if this mob make good use of their snow machines it could and should lead to investment elsewhere. Which will take a while and some will struggle or go as it stands now and looks in the future unless some money for snow making balances the map quickly...
'
Hipennine


Guest
Re: Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 07.21hrs on Thu 20 Dec 18
The fact (if true) that Season Passes will be honoured at all post administration is very overtly illegal public funding support. Some of the aggrieved season ticket holders should remember that.
smugmcsmugface


Guest
Re: Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 17.07hrs on Thu 20 Dec 18
Alan Wrote:

"£1m of snow making bought outright by HIE for the sole use of CairnGorm, while the Lecht and Glencoe only got partial support. Now CML has been phoenixed and is back in HIE ownership minus debt to suppliers and creditors, and is suddenly with taxpayer ££££ behind it able to slash its lift pass price by almost a tenner."

Indeed, the community trust campaigned hard for that snow factory.
and some of them take credit for it's installation.
The money had to come from somewhere though...
You aren't a member of that community trust are you Alan?

alan


Posts: 10750
Joined: Nov 1994
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Re: Phoenixed into public ownership - CML slash ticket prices!
Date Posted: 19.56hrs on Thu 20 Dec 18
smugmcsmugface Wrote:
You aren't a member of that community trust are you Alan?


You have to be on the electoral register within PH22 to be a member, but I support the objective of a transfer from HIE to community ownership. The trust pushed for the original trial not just reacting to the Funiculsr. CML were pretty dismissive of the trial while the Lecht and Glencoe were positive and made a strong case to HIE for snowmaking to be supported.

Two did the work, two made a success of the trail but itís the other one who gets the biggest benefit.

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