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alan


Posts: 10711
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 19:54
30th Oct 2020
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Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 16.30hrs on Mon 27 Jul 20
ML Wrote:
The wind argument isn't that major any more. Modern detachebles can operate at winds speeds you don't want to be on a mountain anyway.



While that is a valid point, the issue isn't that modern chairlifts are proposed rather it's the specifics of where they've proposed to put them! The proposed SE Group phase 2 mid mountain lift has an alignment up a crest where the prevailing wind direction rapidly accelerates over.

A slight breeze at the bottom of Coire Cas, that is a moderate wind outside the Ptarmigan Restaurant can be a difficult to stand up in wind high on Coronation Wall.

There is no question that the SE group proposed mid to upper mountain lift would be closed more frequently than the same spec of lift on the line of the White Lady T-bar.

That proposal is thus self defeating, especially as the same terrain could be accessed by a Marquis Well Tow on the lee side of the Summit from the prevailing wind, from the top of the proposed Ptarmigan Express.

More generally given the dysfunctional nature of the Funicular, if it is repaired (and our view is very strongly that it should not be) it would be absurd to build a new lift network that provides no redundancy for sight seeing and novice skiers for times when the funicular is out of service (whether that be due to snow burial, a maintenance period or a repeat of the current situation).

If the Funicular is repaired and the Ptarmigan Restaurant rebuilt as proposed, it is critical that a new non surface lift network is capable of taking non skiing sightseers and novice skiers and boarders to the Ptarmigan Restaurant and Top Basin for times when the funicular can not operate.

As such a new White Lady Express lift would allow non skiers and novices to reach the Top Basin and such a lift could be installed without prejudging the future strategy for the rest of the mountain. Such a lift should be built first, then a full all options appraisal of CairnGorm and the Glenmore approaches.
01cookjk


Posts: 128
Joined: Jan 2014
Last Visited: 09:50
22nd Oct 2020
Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 11.12hrs on Mon 3 Aug 20
For once, I fully agree with Alan.
For a while now I have been on the side of fixing the funicular because the thought of removing such a massive peice of infrastructure and the damage it will cause to the mountain seems like a lot of hassel compared to fixing it.

It has however become clear that the funicular is very ill-suited to its task, with the sole exception being during the summer, when I think it works well, but then again, so would several detachable chairlifts with a few gondola's thrown in for the disabled.

Not only that, but the cost of fixing it is clearly insane. Either there are contractors out there that don't want the work or just purely greedy people. At least with a new lift there could be competition for a contract between Leitner and Dopplemayr and presumably a general contractor.

Above all though, the funicular should be left in place UNTILL a new lift(s) up to the ptarmigan is built.

Anyone have on throughts of how the tunnel could be repurposed? It would be tempting to think a chairlift could be routed through it, but I don't think it is large enough for that.
ML


Posts: 50
Joined: Dec 2018
Last Visited: 16:32
27th Oct 2020
Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 20.14hrs on Mon 3 Aug 20
A underground area for a snow factory, like the one in nevis range?
alan


Posts: 10711
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 19:54
30th Oct 2020
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 20.55hrs on Mon 3 Aug 20
The tunnel is of limited utility for any other purpose because itís not (and wasnít) intended to be watertight. Water draining through the ground finds its way through the tunnel roof and is channeled out by sub track level drains.

Those familiar with the mountain will be aware of how top access routes into the White Lady are often lost before the main snowfield. Given the benefit of gully storage of snow, the best future use would be to strip the vegetation and soil, remove the roof and partially collapse the sides. Reinstating the soil and vegetation in the shape of a shallow gully with an appearance similar to natural drainage and glacial outflow channels on the mountain.

Snow fencing coupled with a shallow man made gully would restore a direct route onto the White Lady proper that would persist significantly longer in spring or lean conditions than the present routes.

It would be a win for snowsports and the least disruptive option for dealing with the tunnel construct. Maintaining the concrete base and drainage under the landscaping would control run off erosion of the snow and be substantially less disruptive than attempting to remove the entire structure and founds.
01cookjk


Posts: 128
Joined: Jan 2014
Last Visited: 09:50
22nd Oct 2020
Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 21.39hrs on Tue 4 Aug 20
That is really not a bad idea ML
TroutWrestler


Posts: 159
Joined: Jan 2006
Last Visited: 10:26
9th Oct 2020
Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 20.01hrs on Sun 9 Aug 20
Hmm. Water supply, power supply and it is quite near the top of the mountain. Snow factory output is required lower down. I know gravity is on your side, but the distance is considerable.
ML


Posts: 50
Joined: Dec 2018
Last Visited: 16:32
27th Oct 2020
Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 17.52hrs on Mon 10 Aug 20
Not a unusaual situation in the Alps and same as Nevis Range.
Since you would have to dig up the fundations of the funicular anyway, adding piping/cables along the original line wouldn't require a lot of extra digging enviromental whise. Could be a great pumphouse for a Snow-Lance style system.
01cookjk


Posts: 128
Joined: Jan 2014
Last Visited: 09:50
22nd Oct 2020
Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 09.34hrs on Wed 12 Aug 20
ML Wrote:
Not a unusaual situation in the Alps and same as Nevis Range.
Since you would have to dig up the fundations of the funicular anyway, adding piping/cables along the original line wouldn't require a lot of extra digging enviromental whise. Could be a great pumphouse for a Snow-Lance style system.


I wonder if it could be turned into a grotto or ice caves lol?

PeterS


Posts: 963
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 18:12
30th Oct 2020
What's this?What's this?
Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 21.52hrs on Wed 12 Aug 20
The final instalment of alternative ways to spend the funicular repair sum on far more Beneficial projects for the Highlands. This is a well thought through proposal for a replacement Cliffhanger chair at Glencoe. Thankyou to Alan. Iíve enjoyed reading and thinking about these positive and practical ideas.

[parkswatchscotland.co.uk]



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 21.53hrs Wed 12 Aug 20 by PeterS.
TroutWrestler


Posts: 159
Joined: Jan 2006
Last Visited: 10:26
9th Oct 2020
Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 10.27hrs on Fri 9 Oct 20
20.5 million for funicular repair approved.

[www.bbc.co.uk]
WeeSam


Posts: 99
Joined: Sep 2014
Last Visited: 17:47
30th Oct 2020
Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 18.15hrs on Fri 9 Oct 20
just saw that. Imagine what you could do with £20 million even after spending a few hundred grand ripping the train tracks out.

Cairngorm could be a first class ski area with snow cannons everywhere.

This is just pure insanity. What happens in 10 years when it falls to pieces again?
handyman


Posts: 131
Joined: Nov 2003
Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 23.20hrs on Sat 10 Oct 20
Here is an interesting comparison:

[skipropertyshop.com]
Maf


Posts: 154
Joined: Feb 2007
Last Visited: 07:31
28th Oct 2020
Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 07.11hrs on Sun 11 Oct 20
If you are really concerned to make sure the £20m is invested sensibly, write to your MSP and ask them to raise your concerns and issues and suggestions about HIE & Cairngorm with the Scottish Administration. They can actually direct the investment to the most useful and sensible projects and avoid wrong lifts in the wrong places, car parks you can't get to or which have no lifts from them and unnecessary investment in cafes before the lift and snowmaking situation has been properly sorted out. Discussion here is all very interesting, but your MSP might actually be able to get real life action.
ML


Posts: 50
Joined: Dec 2018
Last Visited: 16:32
27th Oct 2020
Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 11.18hrs on Sun 11 Oct 20
Does look like the french refurb didn't include a full rebuild of the track.
01cookjk


Posts: 128
Joined: Jan 2014
Last Visited: 09:50
22nd Oct 2020
Re: Funicular repair & Master Planning
Date Posted: 15.03hrs on Sun 11 Oct 20
WeeSam Wrote:
just saw that. Imagine what you could do with £20 million even after spending a few hundred grand ripping the train tracks out.

Cairngorm could be a first class ski area with snow cannons everywhere.

This is just pure insanity. What happens in 10 years when it falls to pieces again?


I agree, and i get the feeling that the costs involved are blown up by contractors because they know if they can get away with it, they can earn big money. Its all driven by greed. Meanwhile, contractors working with other resorts have the keep their bids for work fairly low in order to be accepted.

As for Glencoe, well they are building the chairlift themselves with the possible exception of electrics and inspections, saving a lot of money.
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