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sspeirs


Posts: 352
Joined: Mar 2008
Last Visited: 17:55
23rd Nov 2020
Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 13.18hrs on Sat 24 Oct 20
I've been pondering the implications of the covid restrictions on the upcoming ski season, as I am sure many of you are. Of course, anything could change, based upon how infections go, however I found some encouragement in the recently published Scottish Government framework.

I took the pic attached from a Scottish Government covid restrictions 5 Tier breakdown summary, The way I read this, in all tiers, even when stating no non-essential travel out of high risk areas, there are exemptions for travel related to outdoor exercise. So the way I read this, regardless of where you stay, we shouldn't be restricted under this framework travelling to the ski centres for "outdoor exercise" - again assuming no further changes to this framework?

Your thoughts?

Stephen

Attachments: IMG_0306.jpg (345kB)  
ML


Posts: 51
Joined: Dec 2018
Last Visited: 21:02
23rd Nov 2020
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 16.05hrs on Sat 24 Oct 20
Big difference between could and should. Not trying to get a this works and this not discussion, but the highest level is there for a reason, don't think it's smart to weasle between the lines.
Does require to support business for missed income, but in (near-)lockdown situations going out for a ski isn't the thing to do.

alan


Posts: 10714
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 13:42
22nd Nov 2020
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 16.29hrs on Sat 24 Oct 20
The ski areas will as things stand be able to operate uplift for snowsports at all five levels, but no other facilities in level 4 lockdown, ie no hire, no lessons, no sightseeing, no catering (possibly takeaway allowed).

Itís not weasling between the lines, there is an explicit exception to travel advice for outdoor sports and mountain recreation - that might change by the time it goes through Parliament though.

That also depends on not relapsing from phase 3 or the pre-existing route map to phase 2 which would introduce the national 5 mile travel limit.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 16.30hrs Sat 24 Oct 20 by alan.

igloo4you


Posts: 521
Joined: Oct 2009
Last Visited: 21:03
23rd Nov 2020
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 17.16hrs on Sat 24 Oct 20
ML, guidance is very explicit. It's very clear that at all tiers the Government deem outdoor non contact exercise such as hill walking, climbing, skiing and snowboarding to be essential to the overall health of the nation. Some common sense at last.

jabuzzard


Posts: 873
Joined: Jan 2010
Last Visited: 20:27
23rd Nov 2020
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 20.45hrs on Sun 25 Oct 20
igloo4you Wrote:
ML, guidance is very explicit. It's very clear that at all tiers the Government deem outdoor non contact exercise such as hill walking, climbing, skiing and snowboarding to be essential to the overall health of the nation. Some common sense at last.


Problem is too many people have not been using common sense.

Take for example the stupid bint at my nieces school who decided having tested positive she wanted to see her friends and was feeling fine so came in; with predictable results.

Or the hundreds of football fans who decided to spend more that a 24hr Sky Sports pass on NowTV costs (the grand sum of £9.99) travelling to pubs outside the central belt to watch the old firm match.

It's morons like this that have led us to be where we are today.

ropetow


Posts: 196
Joined: Sep 2006
Last Visited: 16:44
16th Nov 2020
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 23.09hrs on Wed 28 Oct 20
I think the issue will be whether you can travel between areas in different tiers for the purpose of exercise - theres a lot of talk of folks from down south coming up to Scotland to ski as they cant get abroad. Is that acceptable?

What was the outcome from the hillwalkers that were charged for travelling during lockdown previously? It all went very quiet after June.

alan


Posts: 10714
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 13:42
22nd Nov 2020
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 17.50hrs on Thu 29 Oct 20
ropetow Wrote:
I think the issue will be whether you can travel between areas in different tiers for the purpose of exercise - theres a lot of talk of folks from down south coming up to Scotland to ski as they cant get abroad. Is that acceptable?

What was the outcome from the hillwalkers that were charged for travelling during lockdown previously? It all went very quiet after June.


Day tripping would be as things stand be OK, but overnight stays from higher prevalence areas needs clarification - arguably OK in Scotland as itís for one of the permitted purposes (providing accommodation and ski area not under level 4), but leaving an English Tier 3 area or Welsh lockdown to go to a Scottish Mountain would be against the respective English guidance and against the law in Wales!

Itís also a distance thing - if you travel for hill walking then suitable hills as close to you as possible should be used, but thereís only five commercial ski areas and if you want to ski tour then by definition it requires snow! People not taking the piss and complying with social distancing to keep covid in check will be critical to having a winter season in the mountains for all activities.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 17.51hrs Thu 29 Oct 20 by alan.

growwild


Posts: 3517
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 19.33hrs on Thu 29 Oct 20
Essential - absolutely necessary, extremely important.

Is there any clarification that travelling up to a ski resort from higher level areas is permitted under the guise of essential exercise?

If you want to ski under the current system then its dry slopes for those in the central belt if that's yer only form of exercise from what I see....

There needs to be clarification to stop folk wasting cash on season tickets, that is unless yer local to the ski areas under the current restrictions.

Essential exercise needs defined....

sspeirs


Posts: 352
Joined: Mar 2008
Last Visited: 17:55
23rd Nov 2020
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 20.00hrs on Thu 29 Oct 20
It's not defined in the Scottish Government guidelines as "Essential Exercise".

You can see in the attachment I posted in the original post in this thread, and also at, say,

[www.gov.scot]
..... (I added the ** below)

Travel
no non-essential travel into or out of the level 4 area. If necessary, limits on travel distance, or a requirement to stay at home

**exemptions** for .....; outdoor exercise;

So at all levels you can travel to places where you take part in outdoor exercise.

I wonder how the local communities feel about that, right enough, but they may welcome some business from the snowsports participants.

In my view, snowsports in Scotland *should* be one of the safer sporting activities you can take part in this winter. Clouds of covid-infected aerosols won't hang about long in the winds we typically get outside on the hills.

At the end of the day, the behaviour of anyone travelling to the ski areas could waste it for many. If videos get posted of socially distanced skiers, masks on in any area of potential crowding, that will help. However if lots of people turn up without tickets, don't distance, don't form orderly queues etc, and worst of all travel when knowing they are infected, it won't take long for the government to change the regulations.



growwild


Posts: 3517
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 20.30hrs on Thu 29 Oct 20
**Exemptions for essential outdoor exercise

That 'essential' bit is quite important that you left oot, especially if the dibble get involved and fines are handed oot for thousands of folk that have dry slopes in their designated level.

If snow sports are the only form of exercise for a lotta folk then why aint the dry slopes rammed when there is nae snow?





Edited 1 times. Last edit at 20.31hrs Thu 29 Oct 20 by growwild.

sspeirs


Posts: 352
Joined: Mar 2008
Last Visited: 17:55
23rd Nov 2020
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 21.09hrs on Thu 29 Oct 20
The way I read it, "essential" doesn't apply to exercise - it's just "outdoor exercise" - only to other travel outside the restricted area. As I say, my reading - and I wouldn't class skiing as "essential exercise" even on a dry slope.

And - just now - the travel restrictions are guidance only, not regulations (yet!) so no fines (yet) - however that could change if we collectively mess this up. We'll all need to reinforce the "don't travel without a ticket" message and make sure that social distancing etc happens in busier areas such as lift queues.

growwild


Posts: 3517
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 21.42hrs on Thu 29 Oct 20
"Travel:

exemptions for essential travel for work, education, shopping health etc; outdoor exercise; weddings and funerals; shared parenting, and transit through restricted areas"

That's from yer link, engerlish is my second language and am pretty sure that's essential mentioned up there.. Replace 'work' with any of the above..

For example:

exemptions for essential travel for outdoor exercise

Does that makes visiting the ski resorts essential for exercise, the local hikes here suck too so hikers can go anywhere they see fit as it's essential that they go to the better hiking areas?

The supermarket here is pure shit too, a few thousand will be heading up to shop in aviemore fae here next week. It's pure essential man...


If it's extremely important and absolutely necessary to ski or snowboard at a resort for outdoor exercise I'd like to hear the reasoning and excuses, some folk here might wanna know what to say to justify their travel..

WeeSam


Posts: 100
Joined: Sep 2014
Last Visited: 15:31
8th Nov 2020
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 23.26hrs on Thu 29 Oct 20
Guidelines are not Law.

To many jumped up little tosspots in government all around this country, be it England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland are issuing almost daily (sometimes multiple times a day) "guidelines" and "tiers" and "levels". England brings our 3 tiers, so Scotland brings out 5. If England had 5, Sturgeon would make 10, just to make it look like she is doing something. Bristol goes even more batshit and brings out fractional levels, and so are in Level 1.5. Not quite 2, but definitely not 1, so be careful out there. Guidelines that are deliberately vague, confusing and self-contradictory. Guidelines that these tosspots are not even following themselves. Guidelines they do not understand because they change so frequently. Guidelines that are not the Law. If you can't write the essence of a guideline on the back of fag packet it's not worth a fag packet. Having to quote it and after that still having no idea what it means is pathetic. The way it stands, if you have 2 people read the guideline, they will come to 2 different conclusions.

It's not against the Law to break a government guideline; and these things need to be tested in court. The governments are side-stepping due process by ruling by decree rather than legislation.

growwild


Posts: 3517
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 11.42hrs on Sat 31 Oct 20
True!

I could have a rant about the lack of logic behind the guidelines and the fanjita mps and msps who have no experience in most of things they make decisions on!

Still, the guidelines highlighted in this thread regarding the guidance is very explicit and it's very clear from reading that as from monday not all levels can travel into other levels for outdoor sports or exercise unless essential.

For now its guidance.. I guess what might be happening over the border in England could be an example to those that don't follow the guidance and follow disingenuous advice regarding guidance from businesses....


This covid pish aint afraid of the cold or even freezing temps according to science either and the covid is known as sticky. If I ran a dry slope in the central belt I'd be getting the lifts copper plated if it'll help having to wipe them down after contact, especially if it's gonna be essentially mobbed with essential exercisers

The whole thing is fcked up, but the minority and government should be fcked right up for destroying the way of life for the majority for being greedy thick funts..








Edited 1 times. Last edit at 11.44hrs Sat 31 Oct 20 by growwild.

jabuzzard


Posts: 873
Joined: Jan 2010
Last Visited: 20:27
23rd Nov 2020
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 15.06hrs on Sat 31 Oct 20
growwild Wrote:
Still, the guidelines highlighted in this thread regarding the guidance is very explicit and it's very clear from reading that as from monday not all levels can travel into other levels for outdoor sports or exercise unless essential.


If you can't go from tier 3 to tier 2 for a game of golf then tier 3 to tier 1 to go skiing is clearly out the question. Professor Jason Leitch was quite clear about that yesterday on the TV.


For now its guidance.. I guess what might be happening over the border in England could be an example to those that don't follow the guidance and follow disingenuous advice regarding guidance from businesses....


Indeed there are far to many people not following the rules or for that matter common sense, which is why we are where we are. Heaven forbid there was a really deadly pandemic or an actual hot war.

My immediate concern is floods of fecking morons coming over the Taybridge from Dundee next week. I am all for some ANPR and questioning anyone in a car registered to an address in Dundee to find out the feck they are doing.

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