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mtq1000


Posts: 596
Joined: Oct 2008
Last Visited: 18:19
15th Apr 2021
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Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 20.05hrs on Sat 26 Dec 20
I am very interested in the 5 mile exemption as I live in Argyll and Bute ; however Glencoe (border is about 4 miles away) isn't taking anyone without a Highland address. So if that is the case then I suspect the other areas are doing something similar and therefore for downhill skiing the 5 mile exemption is redundant.

I can still ski tour in and around the area just can't buy a lift ticket. I understand the reasoning for this as it makes life more straightforward in terms of IDing folk who can and cannot ski. However I would dearly like Glencoe to reconsider. Clearly their decision though.

I do think the Government will change this and remove the exemption anyway at some point but whilst it is there I would like to use it.



alan


Posts: 10748
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 14:21
17th Apr 2021
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Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 21.18hrs on Sat 26 Dec 20
The Lecht straddles a council boundary and thus is fully available to residents of both Moray and Aberdeenshire.

While Glenshee uplift is fully within Aberdeenshire, the southernmost part of the car park is in Perth and Kinross, and Glenshee is accepting ticket bookings from the Aberdeenshire Council and Perth & Kinross Council areas. But important to note, NOT from Aberdeen City.

Given the travel restrictions and the forecast, it's a real shame that Hillend has been closed by Mid Lothian council. With the outer perimeter of the site and top station of the Chairlift being on the City of Edinburgh boundary, the area would be accessible to both Mid Lothian and the City of Edinburgh residents and it looks like a reasonable chance of a covering of snow on the mats in the coming week.

growwild


Posts: 3550
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 20.16hrs on Sun 27 Dec 20
Good tae see Glencoe smarting up and only accepting folk that are allowed to be there.

I had a look through their facebook among others. It saddens me even more that fcking shite site was born, as I'm sure some they thick fanjeetas posting on there would find their way on here so I can get fill them with pleasantries...

In regards tae Hillend, I'm guessing to many folk hitting the place and not enough staff to clean the place would be an issue.. As has been mentioned, the pomas are an issue as is any other place where multiple people touch ?

Moray


Posts: 6
Joined: Dec 2018
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 18.28hrs on Mon 28 Dec 20
I am intrigued by the interpretation of the ability to travel 5 miles into another local authority area for informal exercise in level 4.

While this makes sense for a few people to meet for a run / bike / walk / ski tour in accordance with the outside meeting guidance I am less clear on how this applies to commercial operations which by their very nature are “organised” and attract people in larger numbers to a single location.

The Sport Scotland guidance states that sport conducted with rules and guidance from a business would be considered an “organised activity”. This same guidance advises that for organised activities you must stay within the local authority if it is level 3/4 (no 5 mile extension from what I can see) [sportscotland.org.uk]

I’m surprised Sport Scotland do not appear to have published any specific recent guidance in relation to the Ski resorts especially given very awkward fact that some span 2 local authority areas. Where this is the case there is a risk that having customers from two different local authority areas gathering in the one location could encourage spread from a high prevalence area to a lower one.




paraffin


Posts: 580
Joined: Mar 2007
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 19.33hrs on Mon 28 Dec 20
Can't the ski centres not just hand out guns to every customer?

That would kill two birds with one stone - so to speak

Hunting is exempt under the rule of six
and
It would get rid of the fauna that is destroying the artificial slopes

facelikeanrss


Posts: 36
Joined: Nov 2010
Last Visited: 09:18
11th Feb 2021
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 00.17hrs on Tue 29 Dec 20
growwild Wrote:
Good tae see Glencoe smarting up and only accepting folk that are allowed to be there.

I had a look through their facebook among others. It saddens me even more that fcking shite site was born, as I'm sure some they thick fanjeetas posting on there would find their way on here so I can get fill them with pleasantries...

In regards tae Hillend, I'm guessing to many folk hitting the place and not enough staff to clean the place would be an issue.. As has been mentioned, the pomas are an issue as is any other place where multiple people touch ?


Hopefully the decision to close Hillend isn't another example of outdoor "touch points" like drag tows and public toilets being overplayed as tanginbly relevant drivers of community transmission of COVID19. One of the things we know with clarity is that (outwith intra-household contacts), close physical contact with those outside your household is the main driver of transmission in the general population. In ski-ing terms, catered chalet-hotels, apres bars such as in Iscghl and possibly cable car/large gondola use appear to have been the main issue rather than "touch points" related to lift infastructure.

As far as public toilets go, can any resident Scots reading this think of anywhere they have ever been more motivated to avoid touching a hard surface throughout their lives??

In terms of the relevance to Scottish skiing (including Hillend), drag lift users generally wear ski gloves and could easily be compelled to. Being constructed of textile, these gloves are demonstrably in lab conditions poorly capable of carrying viably transmittable virus compared to bare skin (and certainly compared vinyl....).

Furthermore - leaving aside the uncertainty as to whether environmental levels of UV will render deposited COVID19 unviable for transmission - it seems unlikely that sufficient quantities of viable virus would survive a journey between drag tow users of several hundred metres whilst the hanger is blasted by wind/snow/ice/feezing rain/drifting snow/tumbling snowboarders to cause any sort of outbreak that might affect the local or national COVID picture.

If the "you don't need an RCT to tell you face coverings reduce COVID spread" is a good enough arguement to force schooolkids not at personally significant risk from COVID to cover their faces for their time in class every day, surely we are nowhere near the stage that we should suspect the the activity itself of outdoor ski-ing in Scotland is risks>benefits.

alan


Posts: 10748
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 14:21
17th Apr 2021
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Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 01.53hrs on Tue 29 Dec 20
Moray Wrote:

The Sport Scotland guidance states that sport conducted with rules and guidance from a business would be considered an “organised activity”. This same guidance advises that for organised activities you must stay within the local authority if it is level 3/4 (no 5 mile extension from what I can see)




For the purposes of the regulations, use of uplift for snowsports is not 'organised'. This has been clarified several times and it has been clear from the outset of the level system in Scotland that uplift can operate up to and INCLUDING level 4 - Lockdown.

Moray


Posts: 6
Joined: Dec 2018
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 07.47hrs on Tue 29 Dec 20
Thanks Alan, that is really helpful. Searched both snowsport Scotland and sport Scotland for this info but was unable to find it. All I found was guidance about artificial slopes [drive.google.com] and this table which didn’t help [drive.google.com]

In terms of supporting the ski areas it would be good if snowsport Scotland could publish written info on their website in support of the resorts not being considered organised. I’m unsure why they have not done this.

The Scottish cycling info for example is much clearer on what is permitted at each level- [www.britishcycling.org.uk]


growwild


Posts: 3550
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 13.01hrs on Tue 29 Dec 20
There is no evidence to say cold and snow kills the covid, research says the opposite. UV light has been mentioned a lot but it's UVC light that's used to kill germs, bacteria etc. If UVC light was everywhere we'd be living underground but thanks to the ozone layer we aint. The media rarely go into detail.

Not much data in regards to fabric though a lotta gloves have metal on them as do clothing. Moisture plays a part too in keeping the virus going so wet gloves on a metal surface then touching the face = a risk.

Is ski hire equipment still to be quarantined, if so then why?



carsey


Posts: 400
Joined: Jan 2016
Last Visited: 08:29
18th Apr 2021
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 18.06hrs on Tue 29 Dec 20
Where does it say skiing isnt allowed?

Im from uk and just read the guidance for glencoe area, level 4, and it says:
"Outdoor non-contact sports such as golf and fishing are permitted for all age groups"

Surely that is saying skiing is allowed?

Owen


Posts: 45
Joined: Nov 2011
Last Visited: 11:05
12th Mar 2021
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 11.36hrs on Wed 30 Dec 20
It doesn't say no skiing, it says you can't leave your local council area. So we can ski but can't get to the ski slopes.

TroutWrestler


Posts: 162
Joined: Jan 2006
Last Visited: 18:01
16th Feb 2021
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 20.28hrs on Wed 30 Dec 20
I see that Glencoe are accepting users from Argyll and Bute currently. The base of the access chair is more than 5 miles from A&B by road. I'm sure Alan mentioned earlier that P&K is within 5 miles as the crow flies too...

alan


Posts: 10748
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 14:21
17th Apr 2021
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Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 21.42hrs on Wed 30 Dec 20
TroutWrestler Wrote:
I see that Glencoe are accepting users from Argyll and Bute currently. The base of the access chair is more than 5 miles from A&B by road. I'm sure Alan mentioned earlier that P&K is within 5 miles as the crow flies too...


That the A82 directly crosses the A&B / Highland boundary on Rannoch Moor makes this clear cut under the current statutory instruments. There is no direct route from the close part of Perth & Kinross - most people from P&K would enter from the South thus from A&B having also transited through Stirling as opposed to directly from Perth & Kinross into Highland.

The statutory instruments do state you can transit through another council to get to another part of your own council, such as A&B residents passing through Stirling Council on the A82 and back into A&B.

You could construct an argument that P&K to Glencoe via the A9, A889, A86, A82 would be technically compliant with the statutory instrument - but it would be an artificial route with a big diversion for most, and most people would arrive via a route which the current advice suggests would not be permissible.

P&K people can access Glenshee so they can get skiing, that also tilts things against access to Glencoe - ultimately pushing things to the limit isn’t a good strategy for staying open. Police were on site a couple of times today at Glencoe including spot checks on where people had come from.

growwild


Posts: 3550
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 23.35hrs on Wed 30 Dec 20
Limiting the numbers looks good for staying open at places. If they get rammed then the dibble will start asking "is this essential"? and be saying "if ya can ski ya can fcking walk round yer local area, now bolt ya fud"

Both centres near towns are closed, I've been starting to wonder if they were asked to shut up shop to protect the local area from the cull.

If this covid mutates again and starts doing in the thick then Glencoes gonna lose a fair amount of facebook customers, which is sad as my opinions are starting to sway about fudbook. Reading the daily mail comments gives the same laugh and fear in regards tae inbreeding being more prevalent than one thought.



Suilven


Posts: 52
Joined: Feb 2010
Last Visited: 17:50
10th Feb 2021
Re: Travel in Scottish Government 5 Tier Covid Framework
Date Posted: 12.30hrs on Thu 31 Dec 20
It is a bit of a farce that Crianlarich and Tyndrum folk can't go to Glencoe (or anywhere else) to ski, but folk from Helensburgh, Gareloch and other places much further away can. There has to be a better way of doing this.

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