You are NOT Logged in.
Chat about all aspects of snowsports, backcountry, climbing and mountaineering.
Goto Thread: PreviousNext
Goto: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Current Page:11 of 99
flugeryl


Posts: 2307
Joined: Oct 2004
Last Visited: 12:40
11th Mar 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 14.01hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
so start of xmas week very cold and dry ideal conditions for smow making, lecht and glenshee may be able to benefit and have some holiday sliding?


There is money in this guys n dolls
Kieran


Guest
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 14.13hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps Lecht will make use of their new snow cannons and get something more than the beginner slopes open.
Doug_Bryce


Posts: 1373
Joined: Jan 2003
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 14.46hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
The are two only things certain about snowmaking in Scotland

1) It would cost alot of money to install (and run)

2) No one actually knows for sure if snow making could actually work effectivly in Scotland. Despite what some people on this site may lead you to believe!

We ski on DRIFTED snow on Scotland - the wind fill's in deep natural gully's and hollows like coire cas and the main basin with huge (20ft+) drifts of snow.

Hopefully these area's become deep enough to survive the inevitable thaw's and mild period's. I simply cant see a couple of snow cannons being able to cost effectivly create drifts of any significant depth.

The web cams show that last night's harsh thaw completly obliterated all snow from the lower slopes - so any expensive snow made in November would now be completly gone!

Personally I am still far from being convinced...

[www.haggistrap.co.uk]



Edited 3 times. Last edit at 21.12hrs Thu 14 Dec 06 by Doug_Bryce.
roga


Posts: 1123
Joined: Feb 2006
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 14.53hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
^ lol, but surely you have an endless supply of freezing cold water to pour on things so you could flog or even donate it to them to help the snowmaking process winking smiley



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 14.56hrs Thu 14 Dec 06 by roga.
alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 17:02
27th Mar 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 15.07hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
Quote:
No one actually knows for sure if snow making would actually work effectivly in Scotland.


Exactly the point that has been getting banged on about. We need data, data, data and its largely data we don't have. Each season that goes without the data being collected in meaningful quantities, we're another season away.

The Top Basin runs are more or less still there - with snowmaking the base would be more solid, deeper and more robust. As well as more chance of the base pulling through, snow making would allow a faster bounce back from such thaw events.

Yes the snow is expensive. Yes the snow can melt, but even when it does melt - how much snow could have been made, at what cost, and how many skier days could it have achieved before it melted? We don't know and we need too.

Quote:
I simply cant see a couple of cannons being able to cost effectivly create drifts of any significant depth.


A couple of cannons would have been enough for CML to have patched up the Top Basin runs for last Christmas which would have made a big difference financially.

That said though we shouldn't be talking about the odd cannon or two, but an extensive high density system that can make a big difference in a fairly short period of time.

As for the gullies - getting the initial base down is more than half the battle, if that can be given a helping hand all the better. In some areas not feasable, Coire Cas it probably is - the same volume of snow that would put down a 20m wide run in the Ptarmigan Bowl at 12inches would put a 4ft base in the burn course of the Gunbarrel given it's narrow confines. Those volumes of snow are nothing compared to what some of the East Coast resorts in the states put out in a night - even ones the size of the Lecht.

In short: No Snow = No Sport = No Income. The bottom line is it's all about snow on the ground. Get the data, study it, work out the potential, if it doesn't add up then walk away, but if it does then assess the business impact, look at the lynchpin role these areas play in sustaining year round tourisim and work it into the strongest business case that can be made.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 15.11hrs Thu 14 Dec 06 by alan.
Mattun


Posts: 248
Joined: Mar 2006
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 15.13hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
All that's needed is a bit of lateral thinking. winking smiley

[uk.news.yahoo.com]
Doug_Bryce


Posts: 1373
Joined: Jan 2003
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 15.19hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
Simple fact is that no one know's for sure (one way or the other).

Data being collected by the new Glencoe web cam will make interesting end of season reading. Humidity / temp & pressure.

However the effect of persistant high winds on snow making equipment is perhaps the biggest unknown ?


[www.haggistrap.co.uk]



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 15.31hrs Thu 14 Dec 06 by Doug_Bryce.
Kieran


Guest
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 15.33hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
Surely we know snowmaking works on the east from what we have seen at the Lecht.

I have seen them streaming the cannons on many an occasion filling in gaps and building snow on the beginner runs to the height of the fences. Yes we ski on drifted snow, but snowmaking is often done during high pressure situations where we have cold, calm and DRY weather. Therefore it is aimed between the fences, where the piste basher then packs it down ensuring it doesn't blow away. By investing in another 8 snow cannons the Lecht are obviously confident it works for them.
HTH


Posts: 3210
Joined: Nov 2005
Last Visited: 11:13
20th Feb 2018
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 15.50hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
Mattun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All that's needed is a bit of lateral thinking.
>

Yes...and "joined-up" thinking too. - As Keiran & others say, you need to;

- Pick the right Times.
- Pick the right Places.
- Coordinate the piste working.

I was quite encouraged that CML, whom we normally consider to be slow-adopters, have already initiated work to assess snowmaking at middle levels.

This, plus the Lecht, lead me to believe that snowmaking is worthy of practical trials at least on CG. - Like Alan says, reliable data on a very localised basis is required, but I would also think the lecht gives us enough encouragement to ask for a small scale trial at CG, probably on Zig-Zags.(?) - This would have a big impact on viable uplift & access to/from upper slopes.

True that general weather data exists, but it's probably the case that very localised data is required, in order to judge snow yield & longevity on any particular ski-run.



II


Posts: 1283
Joined: Nov 2005
Last Visited: 09:22
4th Aug 2019
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 22.11hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
Has anyone e-mailed the Lecht to tell them that the forcast from now till Christmas is for it to be cold and dryish? So they can fire up their nice new snow cannons and cash in on the Christmas market smiling smiley

go slide....
flugeryl


Posts: 2307
Joined: Oct 2004
Last Visited: 12:40
11th Mar 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 22.12hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
Am I mistaken but artificial snow can be made which doesnt melt until 10 degrees C
II


Posts: 1283
Joined: Nov 2005
Last Visited: 09:22
4th Aug 2019
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 22.22hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
Don't know about that water freezes and melts at 0C AFIK
If metcheck is to be believed the temperature at the Lecht will be at or below 0C until Christmas smiling smiley

go slide....
flugeryl


Posts: 2307
Joined: Oct 2004
Last Visited: 12:40
11th Mar 2021
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 22.27hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
gold mines in south africa make snow which melts at 20 degrees, european resorts looking into it, enviromental impact?
paisleyboarder


Posts: 593
Joined: Nov 2005
Last Visited: 19:44
15th Feb 2018
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 23.08hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
Check this out for what a difference snow making could do before the real snow hits

[www.skicamelback.com]
alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 17:02
27th Mar 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 23.39hrs on Thu 14 Dec 06
The denser nature of machine made snow (it only falls a few metres max insted of thousands) make it more resistant to thaw than natural snow. The systems used in mine cooling are high temperature snowmaking - they actively chill the water/air. There is an aussie company building fan guns with build in cooling - they can produce granular spring like snow up to 30c - at a cost!

It is possible to raise the melting point by adding chemicals to the water - but has issues of its own.

Pulling snow from the Access Roads and Carparks is potentially useful - the salt ultimately will make for harder snow as it creates a thaw/freeze action within in the snowpack.
Current Page:11 of 99
Your Name: 
Your Email: 
Subject: