You are NOT Logged in.
Chat about all aspects of snowsports, backcountry, climbing and mountaineering.
Goto Thread: PreviousNext
Goto: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Current Page:65 of 99
Olderalan


Posts: 1510
Joined: Feb 2006
Last Visited: 15:23
7th Apr 2019
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 13.49hrs on Wed 7 Dec 11
65 pages on this thread now......plenty said, good and not so good.....and now 2 centres are having a real go at some trials. Both Glencoe and Cairngorm get top marks from me for their collaborative effort that has led to such a positive outcome. Great work guys and I wish you every success with the trials this season. It will be of considerable interest to learn how it has all gone when the season finally comes to a close, sometime later next May?!

Kind regards

Olderalan
naefearjustbeer


Posts: 1043
Joined: Apr 2007
Last Visited: 23:28
22nd Nov 2015
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 22.16hrs on Wed 7 Dec 11
or June winking smiley
cmorrison


Posts: 1121
Joined: Sep 2007
Last Visited: 10:36
21st Apr 2021
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 00.37hrs on Thu 8 Dec 11
or July smiling smiley
David Goldsmith


Posts: 1283
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 08:28
6th Nov 2018
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 12.55hrs on Sat 24 Dec 11
Was any snow made by the new guns at Glencoe and Cairngorm (or the existing installations at The Lecht or Glenshee) and ... err ... which river is it in?

It seems to me that the great thaw demonstrates again that whatever artificial use of energy is expended to make artificial snow ... that natural energy is overwhelmingly more powerful in the (often) marginal freezing conditions in the Scottish Highlands. I think the money should be spent on really well conceived lift infrastructure.
cammyammy


Posts: 1362
Joined: Jul 2010
Last Visited: 21:43
8th Dec 2014
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 13.30hrs on Sat 24 Dec 11
Im not aware of any significant snow making at Glenshee so far this season. If they had put out all the canons on claybokie for a few nights when conditions were right then I wonder what differene it would make to now (claybokie now closed due to lack of snow). Certainly when it gets cold again midweek if theres little natural snowfall then it could be the snow canons time to shine.
happygirl


Posts: 19
Joined: Aug 2011
Last Visited: 12:56
21st May 2012
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 14.13hrs on Sat 24 Dec 11
David Goldsmith Wrote:
Was any snow made by the new guns at Glencoe and Cairngorm (or the existing installations at The Lecht or Glenshee) and ... err ... which river is it in?

It seems to me that the great thaw demonstrates again that whatever artificial use of energy is expended to make artificial snow ... that natural energy is overwhelmingly more powerful in the (often) marginal freezing conditions in the Scottish Highlands. I think the money should be spent on really well conceived lift infrastructure.


David Goldsmith voice of reason on winterhighland!!! Neither Glenshee or lecht have made a flake of snow. Real Scottish Ski Area managers know snow making is pointless. The business of CML etc is purely one of survival for the company, skiing is just our fun and it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Peoples livelihoods are far more important skiing is a welcome bonus. Be grateful for what we have. smiling smiley



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 14.18hrs Sat 24 Dec 11 by happygirl.
cammyammy


Posts: 1362
Joined: Jul 2010
Last Visited: 21:43
8th Dec 2014
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 15.33hrs on Sat 24 Dec 11
I reckon its more down to risk of the investment than anything else. ie. If £1000 worth of snow making gets done, will there be £1000 worth of punters coming up to make use of it before the man made snow is irelelvent (when the snow either melts or natural snow falls in vast quantitys on top. In many cases there will be, but there may well not be, like on a day like today when its the weather thats really putting punters off.

Oh and one other thing, if Glenshee & Lecht know snow making is a waste of time and effort then why is it that they have the biggest fleets of snow canons in the UK? And why would a business that doesnt beleive in snow making invest in an additional snow canon for this season (GLenshee). They arnt cheap. Happygirl I cant take you for serious.
Andy


Posts: 1406
Joined: Jan 2003
Last Visited: 08:47
2nd May 2019
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 17.39hrs on Sat 24 Dec 11
Another bout of shite from happygirl..at least you make me laugh. I was in the alps a few years ago skiing in the rain. Yet every night when it cooled down the snow guns came on. Limited snow making for key areas is all we need in Scotland...and ski areas who can run efficihently. Merry Xmas!.
Nelbert


Posts: 281
Joined: Oct 2009
Last Visited: 16:26
23rd Aug 2015
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 18.00hrs on Sat 24 Dec 11
I'm not sure why this clown has not been banned yet, although as others have alluded to it has been here before and will simply reappear again under another moniker. Enjoy your meal for one tomorrow you sad knob jockey.

As for the snowmaking, none has been made yet because it hasn't been required. Late December and a couple of weeks of good snowsports sorted already. After the thaw passes there will be snow making opportunities. Its only the start of the winter.

alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 17:02
27th Mar 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 23.09hrs on Sat 24 Dec 11
As for the snowmaking, none has been made yet because it hasn't been required.


I don't entirely agree with this perspective, because if you don't make snow when you can, you may find you can't make it when you need to. Putting down a significantly robust machine made base on Claybokie, the base of Claybokie and the Cairnwell cafe area, and down the Baddoch Chair would not just have the direct impact of potentially providing snowsports when there might not otherwise be any, but also keeping the area in immediate view of the webcam in good shape could pay dividends! winking smiley

The serious side to that point being, the Cairnwell RaceTracks are still look to be in pretty decent shape, but a casual glance at the panorama cam is likely to lead to a 'uh oh' and not look further in those less familiar with the area.

There is no doubt that the webcams are a double edges sword and probably add to the magnitude in peaks and troughs of demand, but without them we almost certainly wouldn't get the peaks in this day and age.
alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 17:02
27th Mar 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 23.17hrs on Sat 24 Dec 11
Was any snow made by the new guns at Glencoe and Cairngorm (or the existing installations at The Lecht or Glenshee) and ... err ... which river is it in?


In response to David Goldsmith, snow was made at both locations for the period the Techno Alpin guys were over and it made a difference to the usually scratchy top of the Carpark Run. It was the first snow down and as people were skiing through that area yesterday, it wasn't yet in the River Spey! I believe the guys are coming back for more training and guidance.

But it will melt......

This argument is constantly trotted out, but let's consider these 2 scenarios. We've got a foot of consolidated snow on the Carpark Run at CairnGorm.

A ) We have that 1 foot of snow. A savage thaw removes a foot of snow. 1-1=0.

B ) Snow guns on the lower slopes have added a foot of dense machine made snow for a base. 1+1=2. Savage thaw removes a foot of snow. All machine made snow melted.

But in B 2-1=1. We still have a foot of snow on the Carpark Runs and are still skiing to the Daylodge. The next foot of snow falls and lands on a base, adding to the depth.

In scenario A no snow means no skiing on the lower slopes, new snow falls onto bare ground that maybe above freezing melting for a time before accumulations start. Analysis of skier days vs days skiable to the car park suggest the availability of the Carpark Run is a key make or break factor for many, having a run to the Daylodge is worth several hundred extra skier days per day skiable to the Daylodge.



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 23.23hrs Sat 24 Dec 11 by alan.
cammyammy


Posts: 1362
Joined: Jul 2010
Last Visited: 21:43
8th Dec 2014
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 01.38hrs on Sun 25 Dec 11
alan Wrote:

The serious side to that point being, the Cairnwell RaceTracks are still look to be in pretty decent shape, but a casual glance at the panorama cam is likely to lead to a 'uh oh' and not look further in those less familiar with the area. .


Indeed from the road at least yesterday the far race track looked fence-to-fence complete and that was on what I would call the most exposed part of the run. This was the case at the end of last season also. In fact there was a race held on it on the last weekend!

Merry Chirstmas!



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 01.38hrs Sun 25 Dec 11 by cammyammy.
Psstnbooly


Posts: 31
Joined: Jul 2010
Last Visited: 21:06
15th Dec 2014
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 19.17hrs on Sun 25 Dec 11
I wont take sides on the above arguments but will add my piece.

In my experience snowmaking has a big part to play in Scottish skiing as temps are often low enough but we don't always get snow. question is whether they can afford to use them as they need using, or see their value when you don't have enough cannons to complete a run.

Like any other equipment, its not making money unless it's working. all canons should be on when temps are right as this accumulates snow which can then be moved into areas that need them OR to supplement existing coverage. If they're not working, your relying on natural snow of which we should all know can't be relied upon here.

In places I have worked, even with full coverage, snow is still being where temps are low enough, made every night AND day, ready for when the natural stuff goes, or stops coming.

But as none of us have any say or influence on those who make the decisions, best leave them to decide whether they want to bother or not!



Its not how steep you can climb, its what you leave behind!
Hipennine


Posts: 1061
Joined: Dec 2005
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 09.59hrs on Mon 26 Dec 11
It's currently 9.50 am on Boxing day. In the thread above, the usual arguments are being trotted out about the fact that the rain has mmelted the snow, and therefore snowmaking does not work. This is despite the webcams are showing some complete relatively low level runs (at Gshee, the Cairnwell race tracks) and also at G.shee, about half of the Sunny side tow track in its "trench" has significant cover. We know it rains, but we also know that depth and aspect are also a very important part of the snow coverage issue in Scotland. If its deep enough, and in the right place (or the environment is modified to assist a la Sunny side trench), it lasts. Snowmaking would, if used as Psstnbooly has suggested, go a long way to creating the necessary depths in the appropriate positions around the mountain.

And just to remind the doubters (yet again), man-made snow is structurally different, settling more densely, and therefore less subject to wind, rain and temperature ablation.

(Why do we have to keep repeating these facts to the same old doubters, everytime there is a thaw ?)
skiercorn


Posts: 44
Joined: Oct 2008
Last Visited: 16:22
4th Mar 2020
Re: Snow making
Date Posted: 10.36hrs on Mon 26 Dec 11
Agree with the above sureley it is these thaws which add to the argument that snowmaking is essential, if they had had the cannons firing throuought the last cold spell they could have built up some big mounds of snow which could be moved around when needed filling in the gaps.
Current Page:65 of 99
Your Name: 
Your Email: 
Subject: