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Jamie


Posts: 987
Joined: Jan 2002
West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 18.13hrs on Wed 9 Jan 08
Following recent heavy snowfalls and heavy drifting with most of the runs on CairnGorm Mountain now complete - including the East Wall, Ciste Gully and West Wall - the public can look forward to some excellent snowsports this weekend.

With the likes of Glenshee pulling in 2000 skiers last Sunday alone, and with further snowfalls going on just now, it is predictable that this weekend will be even busier. However, with certain key lifts in Coire Cas during busy periods now inoperable, there will be strain on present mid-mountain capacity.

In 2006 at CairnGorm - during the last busy period - I stood 8 lines deep in the M1 Poma queue, and that was WITH the White Lady T-Bar operating. When the M1 consequently then broke down as a result of more people (who weren't capable) using it, the White Lady tow became a vital part of mid-mountain operations.

With the inoperability of the White Lady T-Bar, absolute full reliance on access to the top is now being placed on the M1 Poma. CML therefore stand to suffer hugely from a lack of mid-mountain capacity this weekend, and should be seeking to find more capacity to increase customers and therefore significantly increase profits. They won't find this in Coire Cas..

The last 'big' winter CairnGorm Mountain experienced was in 2001. With conditions in Coire na Ciste presently looking better than they were this time in 2001, runs will continue to improve as snowfall is expected to continue. With this ongoing, capacity issues will become more and more important.

Presently the only sensible available way of easing the pressure on the Cas and generate extra capacity is standing unused but operable in the upper Ciste.

The chairlift is the only realistic, sensible option for increasing mid-mountain capacity this winter. Surely now is the time to get the carriers back on the West Wall Chairlift?

The West Wall Poma alone DOES NOT serve Coire na Ciste. It never has, and only did as part of a wider uplift system. The natural snowfields all run down to the boardwalk, and therefore the foot of the West Wall Chairlift. To travel from the boardwalk to the foot of the West Wall Poma there is a fair hike up a pretty steep incline. There is no natural line traversing across the snowfields to reach the foot of the West Wall Poma, and the traversing fences have proven ineffective.

The West Wall Chairlift was carefully situated where it was for a reason. It is surely time for it to be utilised again.
SFS


Guest
Re: West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 18.26hrs on Wed 9 Jan 08
Good shout but how much work is needed for the chair to spin again? or the poma for that matter. CML could make a bomb this weekend if the tow were all running (the 1's that are left) more than enough could be raked in to repair the WL tow and give the gaffers there bumper wages. Couldn't believe reading the mesage from the lady reponding to the message in bob's blog, she kept repating herself a few times. What a time for the main man to go on holiday as well. if i was a manager of a ski centre i wouldn't be on holiday when your busiest period is just about to kick in.
Olderalan


Posts: 1510
Joined: Feb 2006
Last Visited: 15:23
7th Apr 2019
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Re: West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 18.30hrs on Wed 9 Jan 08
Jamie: thanks for your informative post. I can tell everyone that ALL the points that Jamie makes were laid before the management during the Summer, PRIOR to their decision not to repair the White Lady T-Bar...a decision that will potentially come back to haunt them now.
It isn't too late. The WW Chair could be made ready to run within a few days. However, with the company still 'gearing up' (their words) for snowsports, during the first week in January (WW Poma wasn't ready for use last weekend and the Bars were not on the Cas T-Bar) then I do not expect that the WW Chair will even be on the list.
The whole snowsports community will be watching closely to see what uplift runs this weekend. It should become clearer tomorrow whether the snow is in the right places to run ALL of the surface lifts...and we will be up there with cameras, gathering the evidence...getting our retaliation in first!! If it is, then the customers have a right to expect that the company will open everything.
There is now an excellent opportunity for CML to gain a lot of much needed credibility and regain the respect of the snowsports community. I hope that they respond appropriately.

Regards
Olderalan
Plough_King


Posts: 11
Joined: Nov 2006
Last Visited: 10:13
21st Mar 2008
Re: West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 18.49hrs on Wed 9 Jan 08
Yeah, they should spin it on Saturday, but they won't, and I doubt whether they ever will again. There's no doubt in my mind that the virtual loss of skiing in Coire na Ciste has been one of the biggest mistakes made by Cairngorm's management in recent years - it's where all the best and most challenging runs would be in conditions like this. When I was up there last March, I took some time out from the slopes to wonder round the old Ciste ticket office. It got me thinking back to the early 90s when I first skied at Cairngorm and it was quite sad to see it all in it's current neglected state. It's all a big mistake if you ask me and it's weekends like this when they'll be paying for that mistake (along with not repairing the WL tow)!
telemarker


Posts: 2934
Joined: Oct 2003
Last Visited: 14:59
12th Apr 2021
Re: West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 18.51hrs on Wed 9 Jan 08
I thought the electronics etc and controls at the top of the chair were all shot?
also - wouldnt it take ages to shift all the chairs from the bottom to the chairlift to hook them on?
it must be highly unlikely they would get it working
The Truth


Guest
Re: West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 19.03hrs on Wed 9 Jan 08
Nice thought, but in reality not a hope!

Here are the reasons as i have reliably been informed.

1/ moth balled since it last run, with no maintenance carried out on it since.

2/ Rope would require inspection (NDT), bearings in most wheels on each tower will now be shot,(lack of use is one of the worst things you can do to machinery) all requiring replacment.

3/ The Main bearings at each end (Gearbox- main wheels) are needing replaced.

4/ All grips and chairs would require servicing and and NDT.

5/ Inspection therafter by an independant inspector.

6/ And finally enough manpower to be able to carry out the task, (of which i am told they certainly dont have at the moment.

Until CML Management, realise
flugeryl


Posts: 2307
Joined: Oct 2004
Last Visited: 12:40
11th Mar 2021
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Re: West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 19.03hrs on Wed 9 Jan 08
The east wall may be closed due to avalanche risk, its was a few years ago (the last time it had this amount of snow on it) ciste chair will never run again and CML will suffer because of this, they are no longer geared up for good seasons, and now only invest time and money to maintain their "core lifts".

Unfortunately for those passionate about CM this wont change unless we get 3-5 yr of excellent snow cover. I think this sat/sun for CML will be profitable but with very poor customer satisfaction, leading to a reduction in their client base for people too pissed off to come back, due to 20-30min waits to get on a lift.

The other resorts do not appear to adopt this stance, Glenshee have replied to emails to confirm all their lifts are functioning, snow and setup time is all that is needed to open the whole 21ish lift system.

Glencoe is to open on friday with full cover and full lift service. (wish I could be there)

Nevis are adopting a similar approach to glenshee with exception of RR Chair which runs as often as a fat man for a bus. But new webcams this season demonstrates their comitment.

CML its time to stand up and be counted


Be Nice to Skiers, they have it hard enough already
roga


Posts: 1123
Joined: Feb 2006
Re: West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 19.56hrs on Wed 9 Jan 08
^ totally agree with everything said in all the posts and all the excellent points flugeryl makes above.

This is one of the main reasons I'll be suggesting Glenshee (or even the Lecht) on Sunday to our party of 4 who are up this weekend - potentially that's 4 lost day tickets for CML and a consequent loss of revenue. I suspect it's a decision that will be made by others too and sadly, again as said above, the experience of those who do go to CM may be such that it'll put even more people off.

I know I've moaned on before, perhaps sometimes too much, and this is a time for being positive given the amazing conditions we have but I'm afraid as others have said many of our predictions about CM are now coming true I'm afraid.

However thinking positively I'm very pleased that all of the other ski areas have taken a different attitude and are now gearing up for full utilisation of uplift. I think and hope they'll be rewarded with extra revenue and lots of positive comments here grinning smiley
Jamie


Posts: 987
Joined: Jan 2002
Re: West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 20.22hrs on Wed 9 Jan 08
Bob Kinnaird himself specifically stated at the open forum meeting that the West Wall Chairlift COULD be on-line during the season. When further asked, using the example of a fault with the West Wall Poma (though this could be extended to capacity issues, snow issues, etc), John MacBean said that it would be an economic decision to be made at the time, based on the cost of servicing the chairlift vs cost of repair of the poma.

John MacBean also said that the chair grips had all been removed, serviced, NDT'd and put into storage. They are therefore ready to use. Also - some kind of inspection of the haul rope should be normal pre-season work. The West Wall Chairlift cable was a brand new one that came from the White Lady Chairlift, and should probably be in relatively good nick.

There is a new stop button wired up in place at the unloading ramp, though all the major electronics are situated in Base 4 anyway.

We are also aware that the lift has been used on and off since its last public operation (7th March 2004), being used noticeably in summer 2006 when on a number of different occasions during a relatively small timeframe the chairs had been noted to have changed position. It was also during this period that they removed most of the chairs from the line. I seem to recall they were used to transporting of supplies such as rolls of snowfencing? Last winter we were also informed (third hand) that lifties were being moved in and out of the Ciste via this lift.

Where there's a will...

This weekend might just create a will winking smiley



Edited 4 times. Last edit at 20.30hrs Wed 9 Jan 08 by Jamie.
sbrowne


Posts: 1
Joined: Dec 2004
Last Visited: 18:03
21st Jan 2010
Re: West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 20.27hrs on Wed 9 Jan 08
Good shouts above, particularly roga.

Whilst i agree that its sad and annoying about the WW chair and WL tow, why doesn't everyone just use the other 4 resorts, which appear to be endeavouring to open up as many lifts as poss?

Incidentally, is the WL tow not one of the 'core lifts'?!
alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 17:02
27th Mar 2024
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Re: West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 20.32hrs on Wed 9 Jan 08
The Core Lifts are the Funicular, Ptarmigan, Ciste and Coire Cas T-bars, the M1 and West Wall Poma. The lower Cas tows are all operational 'reserve' lifts, that being the Daylodge and Fiacaill Ridge Pomas, Carpark T-bar and Sheiling Trainer Tow.
Steven Scott


Guest
Re: West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 09.31hrs on Thu 10 Jan 08
I really like to support Scottish skiing and keep an avid watch for good conditions.

I have been skiing for 14 years and am an expert. I visited Cairngorm and Nevis in the 90s and in Cairngorm in 2005 and 2006 (when the ciste gully was open).

I found the skiing very limited for someone of my ability and it annoyed me that although there was good snowcover the WWC was closed which meant in my view a rather short run in the ciste gully.

I wouldnt return to Cairngorm as there is simply not enough easily accessed terrain on offer.

If I go this winter which I probably will I will either go to Glenshee or Nevis / Glencoe.

skijonny


Posts: 26
Joined: Mar 2006
Last Visited: 20:27
19th Oct 2012
Re: West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 09.56hrs on Thu 10 Jan 08
Cairngorm have certainly lost my custom and it seems that have lost the custom of a lot of sliders who have past the beginners stage. To find a reasonable gradient there are only really 2 options, the M1 and WL, both of which are now only served by one poma. To put this in some sort of perspective even the lecht has more to offer than this!

The stance taken by Cairngorm means I will never ski there again unless there really is no other option, and even then I will think twice about it. It seems a waste that they seem to have snow before and longer than everyone else and yet they just waste it. If they were situated in Glenshee I think they would have disappeared long ago.
Steven Scott


Guest
Re: West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 10.25hrs on Thu 10 Jan 08
skijonny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cairngorm have certainly lost my custom and it
> seems that have lost the custom of a lot of
> sliders who have past the beginners stage. To find
> a reasonable gradient there are only really 2
> options, the M1 and WL, both of which are now only
> served by one poma. To put this in some sort of
> perspective even the lecht has more to offer than
> this!
>
> The stance taken by Cairngorm means I will never
> ski there again unless there really is no other
> option, and even then I will think twice about it.
> It seems a waste that they seem to have snow
> before and longer than everyone else and yet they
> just waste it. If they were situated in Glenshee I
> think they would have disappeared long ago.


Totally agree, my Grandmother is 68 and a competent intermediate skier but even she felt the skiing was limited. Mainly due to the fact that the Daylodge poma never ran and the Fiaciall Ridge poma ran only intermitently, and the fact that they signpost runs such as the M2 and Whitelady as 'experts only' which puts competent intermediates off.

I felt the Aanoch bowl was not well sign posted and only my knowledge of the Ciste gave me the knowhow to explore the West and East Walls not signposts or directions from the skicentre.

I have never been to Glenshee however they do seem to have a lot more terrain on offer.

I will try to visit Glencoe because from my experience it has the best natural terrain.
A Skier


Guest
Re: West Wall Chairlift should spin Saturday
Date Posted: 22.02hrs on Thu 10 Jan 08
Hope it snows like this for the rest of the season and for many more. The CM opperators will then pay for the negative attitude to scottish skiing. Gorm is the only place I certainly wont ski this year!!
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