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flugeryl


Posts: 2307
Joined: Oct 2004
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4th Mar 2020
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 15.57hrs on Fri 20 Mar 09
its the British/Scottish spirit to not want to be wrapped in cotton wool because we do dangerous things, its the danger we do them for...however the more you have to lose the more likely you are to wear a helmet...i.e. most pro's are single men soing their wild oats, whereas I am a family man who couldnt bear the thought of my family looking after me 24/7 due to paralysis or dealing with my death

....so I dont have a choice

Be Nice to Skiers, they have it hard enough already
DML2


Guest
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 16.26hrs on Fri 20 Mar 09
The science behind the stats is better than you may think. Speeds have been monitored for many years and have not in fact increased. All other factors such as manoeuvres prior to death have shown no differences over the years. In the biggest study of it's kind the autopsy details were independently examined and the conclusion was that the vast majority of injuries were non survivable, often because of associated injuries.

These are all on slope deaths, the majority a result of losing control and colliding with another static object, usually but not always, a tree. You could equally argue that modern equipment makes it easier to avoid losing control, perform a hockey stop, turn sharply etc that might prevent such a collision. Don't get me wrong, I am totally pro helmets, wear one myself and would strongly encourage everyone else to do so. In my mind there is no strong reason not to wear one. But the absolute risks are low. We live in a democracy and it's still my opinion that forcing people to wear them is not the way to go. If we take every activity in life that has a risk of 1 in 1.5 million of happening (death on the slopes) or 1 in about 350,000 (serious head injury on the slopes) then we will all be spending our entire waking hours wearing and changing in and out of a variety of pieces of protective equipment.
moffatross


Posts: 1525
Joined: Mar 2006
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 16.56hrs on Fri 20 Mar 09
I bought my lid almost exactly three years ago after seeing a bloke at the Glenshee cafe who was passing in and out of conciousness with vomit down his clothes and was waiting for an ambulance, a long wait I guess. I was told he'd simply slipped on the packed snow and ice just behind the building after skiing down from Cairnwell and banged his head on the ground.

My guess is he was OK in the end otherwise we'd all know about it but I suspect he still had a shit end to his day though.

P.S. Alan ... It wasn't a religious experience that made me decide to buy my helmet, it was just a practical one. I don't actually care whether anybody other than me and my children wear them when snowsporting but when I read stupid arguments and statistics suggesting that they are as good as useless and sometimes worse, I've got to disagree. Maybe I have been touched by the hand of God eh ? tongue sticking out smiley
Hipennine


Posts: 1056
Joined: Dec 2005
Last Visited: 16:54
15th Jan 2021
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 17.44hrs on Fri 20 Mar 09
DML2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> These are all on slope deaths, the majority a
> result of losing control and colliding with
> another static object, usually but not always, a
> tree. You could equally argue that modern
> equipment makes it easier to avoid losing control,
> perform a hockey stop, turn sharply etc that might
> prevent such a collision.

I agree, but I think that this has meant that people who previously had the ability to successfully execute such manoeuvres 25% of the time were less likely to ski the trees/bumps/off-piste crud, etc. than now, because the equipment allows them to execute the same manoeuvre 75% of the time.
DML


Posts: 163
Joined: Apr 2006
Last Visited: 01:10
8th Jan 2021
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 19.54hrs on Fri 20 Mar 09
yes, that is possible, we simply don't know for sure.
The aim of my website is simply to put in the public domain what we definitely know at the present time about all aspects of snow sports safety based on sound, peer-reviewed scientific study. Whether we like it or not, anything else is based on anecdotal experience and/or conjecture. However, that's not to say that it isn't actually true, just that to date it's not been PROVEN to be true or the body of evidence isn't big enough to prove it.

There are plenty of facts that I have found during the course of my own studies and research that have baffled me and may seem stupid to others. But if the science behind the work is sound you can't just take the easy route out and dismiss it 'cos you don't agree with it or can't explain it. Happens all the time in medicine smiling smiley



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 19.59hrs Fri 20 Mar 09 by DML.
Hipennine


Posts: 1056
Joined: Dec 2005
Last Visited: 16:54
15th Jan 2021
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 22.44hrs on Fri 20 Mar 09
DML Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yes, that is possible, we simply don't know for
> sure.
> The aim of my website is simply to put in the
> public domain what we definitely know at the
> present time about all aspects of snow sports
> safety based on sound, peer-reviewed scientific
> study. Whether we like it or not, anything else is
> based on anecdotal experience and/or conjecture.
> However, that's not to say that it isn't actually
> true, just that to date it's not been PROVEN to be
> true or the body of evidence isn't big enough to
> prove it.
>
> There are plenty of facts that I have found during
> the course of my own studies and research that
> have baffled me and may seem stupid to others. But
> if the science behind the work is sound you can't
> just take the easy route out and dismiss it 'cos
> you don't agree with it or can't explain it.
> Happens all the time in medicine
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at 19.59hrs Fri 20 Mar
> 09 by DML.


Agree, but there is also the unavoidable set of laws associated with common sense, and that includes if you smash your head off something, it is less likely to be seriously damaged if its got some protection around it !!!!
DML2


Guest
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 09.03hrs on Sat 21 Mar 09
Don't dispute that at all. It's been proven. What hasn't been proven is that wearing a helmet prevents death.
naefearjustbeer


Posts: 1043
Joined: Apr 2007
Last Visited: 23:28
22nd Nov 2015
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 10.21hrs on Sat 21 Mar 09
DML2 Wrote:

What
> hasn't been proven is that wearing a helmet
> prevents death.


Of course it doesnt prevent death it only reduces the risk of head injuries. Not every fall or accident on a ski slope involves a head injury. Skiing into a tree at 50 mph is going to kill most folk no matter how good a helmet is. For lower speed falls and minor knocks they can reduce the risk of more serious injury.

I can live without a limb quite easily I cannot live without a brain (Although my wife thinks I have been for years winking smiley ) I wear a helmet as does the rest of my family even if in reduces the risk of a wayward t-bar knocking me out once in my entire snowsports lifetime it will be worth it.


DML2


Guest
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 10.32hrs on Sat 21 Mar 09
YET again, agreed! I wear a helmet too and strongly encourage everyone else to. But if someone chooses not to for whatever reason, I don't think they should be prevented from skiing or boarding purely on this basis.
naefearjustbeer


Posts: 1043
Joined: Apr 2007
Last Visited: 23:28
22nd Nov 2015
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 10.45hrs on Sat 21 Mar 09
DML2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> YET again, agreed! I wear a helmet too and
> strongly encourage everyone else to. But if
> someone chooses not to for whatever reason, I
> don't think they should be prevented from skiing
> or boarding purely on this basis.


Agreed!
cmorrison


Posts: 1121
Joined: Sep 2007
Last Visited: 09:12
8th Dec 2020
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 15.48hrs on Sat 21 Mar 09
This thread sounds like it should be on snowheads rather than here...
II


Posts: 1283
Joined: Nov 2005
Last Visited: 09:22
4th Aug 2019
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 16.27hrs on Sat 21 Mar 09
cmorrison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread sounds like it should be on snowheads
> rather than here...



[www.snowhead.co.uk]




go slide....
flugeryl


Posts: 2307
Joined: Oct 2004
Last Visited: 12:37
4th Mar 2020
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 16.34hrs on Sat 21 Mar 09
multiple low impact head injuries can lead to concussions which can cause epilepsy with can be a fatal condition..I know a snowboard instructor in canada who suffers epilepsy due to head injury when not wearing a helmet


If you have the time read how many problems can occur....you dont need to die to have needed a helmet to prevent injury [www.tbirecoverycenter.org]

Consequences of a Traumatic Brain Injury
How are Complications From a TBI Treated?
Post concussion Syndrome

Within days to weeks of a head injury approximately 40 percent of TBI survivors develop troubling symptoms called postconcussion syndrome (PCS). A person need not have suffered a concussion or loss of consciousness to develop the syndrome and many people with mild TBI suffer from PCS. Symptoms include headache, dizziness, vertigo (a sensation of spinning around or of objects spinning around the person), memory problems, trouble concentrating, sleeping problems, restlessness, irritability, apathy, depression, and anxiety. These symptoms may last for a few weeks after the head injury. The syndrome is more common in individuals who had psychological symptoms, such as depression or anxiety, before the injury. Treatment for PCS may include medicines for pain and psychological conditions, and counseling to develop coping skills.
Seizures

About 25 percent of patients with brain contusions or hematomas and about 50 percent of patients with penetrating head injuries will develop seizures within the first 24 hours of the injury. These seizures generally stop within a week. Doctors typically only treat these seizures if they continue beyond a week. Seizures occurring more than one week after injury are referred to as post-traumatic epilepsy and are treated with medications. The medications may need to be taken by the survivor for months or years following the injury.
Hydrocephalus

Our brains continually produce and drain a fluid called cerebrospinal fluid (CSF). When the brain is injured the drainage of CSF may be affected and CSF may build up. This condition is called hydrocephalus. The build-up of fluid can lead to increased pressure in the brain. Hydrocephalus may begin during the early stages of TBI but not be apparent until much later. However, it usually is diagnosed within the first year after the injury. Symptoms can include a decreased level of consciousness, changes in behavior, lack of coordination or balance, and loss of the ability to hold urine. Treatment may include draining CSF through a small plastic tube called a shunt. The shunt typically runs under the skin from the head to the abdomen, where the fluid drains and is reabsorbed by the body.
Leakage of CSF

Skull fractures can tear the membranes that cover the brain, leading to leakage of CSF. While the leaking fluid may be trapped between the membranes that surround the brain, it may also leak out of the nose or ears. Surgery may be necessary to repair the fracture and stop the leakage.
Infections

Tears that let CSF out of the brain cavity can also allow air and bacteria into the cavity. An infection of the membrane around the brain is called meningitis and is a dangerous complication of TBI. Most infections develop within a few weeks of the initial trauma and result from skull fractures or penetrating injuries. Standard treatment includes antibiotics and sometimes surgery to remove the infected tissue.
Damaged Blood Vessels in the Brain

Any injury to the head or brain usually results in some damage to blood vessels in the brain. While the body usually quickly repairs damage to small blood vessels, an injury to larger vessels can result in serious complications. Damage to a major artery supplying blood to the brain can cause a stroke in one of two ways: 1) bleeding from an artery (called a hemorrhagic stroke), or 2) a blood clot that forms in an injured artery. When a clot forms in a major artery it can block blood flow, depriving the area that the artery supplies with blood of needed oxygen and nutrients (known as an ischemic stroke). Symptoms of a blood clot in the head include headache, vomiting, seizures, paralysis on one side of the body, and semi-consciousness.

Surgery is necessary to repair an injured blood vessel responsible for a hemorrhagic stroke. Ischemic strokes can be treated with a drug that dissolves clots (a “thrombolytic” drug) if the stroke is diagnosed within a few hours of the beginning of symptoms and there is no evidence of bleeding in the brain. The drug can be given intravenously or through a tube (catheter) that is inserted into an artery in the groin and then advanced to the brain and then into the clogged artery, where the medication is administered through the catheter. Administering the drug through a catheter at the site of the clot has a higher chance of success than intravenous medication but is usually only performed at stroke centers by a team of specialists that can be rapidly assembled twenty-four hours a day.
Cranial Nerve Injuries

Cranial nerves are nerves running from the brain through openings in the skull and to areas in the head such as the eyes, ears, and face. Skull fractures, especially at the base of the skull, can injure cranial nerves. The seventh cranial nerve, called the facial nerve, is the most commonly injured cranial nerve in TBI. An injured facial nerve can result in paralysis of facial muscles. When facial muscles are paralyzed, facial expressions such as smiling will not be symmetrical. Nerve injuries may heal spontaneously. If they do not, surgery may, in certain circumstances, be able to restore nerve function.
Pain

Pain is a common symptom of TBI and can be a significant complication for conscious patients in the period immediately following a TBI. Headache is the most common type of pain, but other kinds of pain can also occur.
Complications for Unconscious Patients

Serious complications for patients who are unconscious, in a coma, or in a vegetative state include bed or pressure sores of the skin, repeated bladder infections, pneumonia or other life-threatening infections, and the failure of multiple organs, such as the kidneys, lungs, and heart.
General Trauma

When a TBI occurs there is usually trauma to not only the brain but other parts of the body as well. These injuries require immediate and specialized care and can complicate treatment of and recovery from the TBI.
What Disabilities Can Result From a TBI?

Disabilities resulting from a TBI depend upon the severity of the injury, the location of the injury, and the age and general health of the individual.
Cognitive Disabilities

“Cognition” describes the processes of thinking, reasoning, problem solving, information processing, and memory. Most patients with severe TBI, if they recover consciousness, suffer some cognitive disability. People with moderate to severe TBI have more problems with cognitive deficits than survivors with mild TBI, but a history of several mild TBIs (for example, a football player) may have a cumulative effect. Recovery from cognitive deficits is greatest within the first six months after the injury and is usually more gradual after that. Most improvements can be expected within two years of the injury.
Memory

The most common cognitive impairment among severely head-injured survivors is memory loss, characterized by some loss of older memories and the partial inability to retain new memories. Some of these patients may experience post-traumatic amnesia, which can involve the complete loss of memories either before or after the injury.
Concentration and attention

Many survivors with even mild to moderate head injuries who experience cognitive deficits become easily confused or distracted and have problems with concentration and attention.
Executive functioning

Many individuals with a mild to moderate TBI also have problems with higher level, so-called “executive” functions, such as planning, organizing, abstract reasoning, problem solving, and making judgments. This disability may make it difficult to return to the same job or school setting the individual was in before the injury.
Language and communication

Language and communication are frequent problems for TBI survivors. Some individuals have trouble recalling words and speaking or writing in complete sentences (called non-fluent aphasia). They may speak in broken phrases and pause frequently. They are usually aware of what is happening and may become extremely frustrated.

Other survivors may speak in complete sentences and use correct grammar but for the listener the speech is pure gibberish, full of invented or meaningless words (called fluent aphasia). TBI survivors with this problem are often unaware that they make little sense and become angry with others for not understanding them.

Other survivors can think of the appropriate language but cannot easily speak the words because they are unable to use the muscles needed to form the words and produce the sounds (called dysarthria). Speech is slow, slurred, and garbled.
Akinetic Mutism
Impairment of the Senses

Many TBI survivors have problems with one of the five senses, especially vision. They may not register what they are seeing or may be slow to recognize objects. Some individuals develop tinnitus, a ringing or roaring in the ears. Others may develop a persistent bitter taste in the mouth or complain of a constant foul smell. Some TBI survivors feel persistent skin tingling, itching, or pain. Although rare, these conditions are hard to treat.
Impairment of Hand-Eye Coordination

TBI survivors often have difficulty with hand-eye coordination. Because of this, they may be prone to bumping into or dropping objects or may seem generally unsteady. They may have difficulty driving a car, working complex machinery, or playing sports.
Emotional and Behavioral Problems

Most TBI survivors have some emotional or behavioral problems. Family members often find that personality changes and behavioral problems are the most difficult disabilities to deal with. Emotional problems can include depression, apathy, anxiety, irritability, anger, paranoia, confusion, frustration, agitation, difficulty sleeping, and mood swings. Problem behaviors may include aggression and violence, impulsiveness, loss of inhibitions, acting out, being uncooperative, emotional outbursts, childish behavior, impaired self-control, impaired self awareness, inability to take responsibility or accept criticism, being concerned only with oneself, inappropriate sexual activity, and alcohol or drug abuse. Sometimes TBI survivors stop maturing emotionally, socially, or psychologically after the trauma, which is a particularly serious problem for children and young adults. Many TBI survivors who show psychiatric or behavioral problems can be helped with medication and psychotherapy.
What Other Long-Term Problems Can be Associated With a TBI?
Alzheimer's Disease (AD)

AD is a degenerative disease in which the individual suffers progressive loss of memory and other cognitive abilities. Recent research suggests an association between head injury in early adulthood and the development of AD later in life; the more severe the head injury, the greater the risk of developing AD. Some evidence indicates that a head injury may interact with other factors to trigger the disease and may hasten the onset of the disease in individuals already at risk.
Parkinson's Disease and Other Motor Problems

Parkinson's disease may develop years after TBI if the part of the brain called the basal ganglia was injured. Symptoms of Parkinson's disease include tremors, rigidity or stiffness, slow movement or inability to move, a shuffling walk, and stooped posture. Despite many scientific advances in recent years, no cure has yet been discovered and the disease progresses in severity.

Other movement disorders that may develop after TBI include tremor, uncoordinated muscle movements, and sudden contractions of muscles.

Learn about the kinds of TBI recovery and rehabilitation used for TBI survivors.

Be Nice to Skiers, they have it hard enough already



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 16.50hrs Sat 21 Mar 09 by flugeryl.
cmorrison


Posts: 1121
Joined: Sep 2007
Last Visited: 09:12
8th Dec 2020
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 17.16hrs on Sat 21 Mar 09
Actually my bad there's more banter on the snowheads thread. [snowheads.com]
headnip


Posts: 190
Joined: Feb 2009
Last Visited: 07:32
26th May 2016
Re: Ski Helmets
Date Posted: 11.39hrs on Mon 23 Mar 09
yeah folks just back from Avoriaz where snow really hard/fast but grippy,reds all the time then lost back edge on simple blue pitch, piste rash on butt lower back was all that showed externally,however,whapped elbow shoulder and head.Had to have restorative coffee etc. before getting back on horse
I've had my lid for 4 years and feel totally wierd and exposed without it although at first it baffled noise which was different to what i was used too,basically 60 mph wind noise if ur up scotland!
MY reason fur getting one.....After chatting to a canadian who said "if u hit a rock it might not kill you but it'll f**k ur day up"
I would say don't knock it till uve tried it
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