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WindyMiller


Guest
When is it an accident?
Date Posted: 17.36hrs on Sat 17 Dec 11
When is it an accident?

Today was my first day of new season piste skiing on the mountain great day butÖ
When is an accident an accident or an inevitable consequence of your actions?

Last year I was taken out twice, once by a young lad learning on the ptarmigan, the other by a twenty something showing off on the traverse with a fool hardy manoeuvre that he did not have enough space to complete. I felt so sorry for the first young lad and even though he had caused the accident he was so shaken up I spent some time helping him. The second, if I had been younger I would have beat the living daylights out of him to knock in some sense.

Today, first down hill day for me, very few people on the slopes and I was wiped out again and most definitely the second level of ďaccidentĒ. I was on the Car-park T bar, late teen early twenty something sees me and decided to go for it to save a fraction of a second instead of waiting for me to go past and go behind. He straightened his board sped up and hit me full on. Is that an accident? Is that the same as running a red light in a car where you would be prosecuted for reckless driving and causing injury?

Interestingly this happened in full sight of a lifty no comment from him until I waved at him and said do something. He did, please ski in control he said to the boarded!!! ďOkĒ and off he went I am sure ready to collide another day or later the same day.

What do you do, my day was cut short with my injury. The hapless twenty something is away having a laugh about the old guy he just flattened.

Grumble over but there is a serious side to this. I spent the hey day 70s and 80s on crowded CG slopes with out collision. Is it people donít care anymore or donít they understand the consequences of there actions. Do we have to go the way of the US and start litigation to make people think of their actions, even restricting the areas boarders and skiers share, not a nice thought.

If it had been me I would have adopted one idea from the US/ Canada. If a lifty or patrol sees an incident the ski pass has an obvious diagonal marker pen line drawn across it, the person can be watched, any other altercation and a second line is drawn forming an X, the pass is no longer valid and you are off the mountain.

May be Iíll have a chat with Colin next week.

Grumpy and sore,sad smiley

WM




Edited 1 times. Last edit at 17.41hrs Sat 17 Dec 11 by WindyMiller.
snowflo


Guest
Re: When is it an accident?
Date Posted: 19.36hrs on Sat 17 Dec 11
B
WindyMiller Wrote:
When is it an accident?

Today was my first day of new season piste skiing on the mountain great day butÖ
When is an accident an accident or an inevitable consequence of your actions?

Last year I was taken out twice, once by a young lad learning on the ptarmigan, the other by a twenty something showing off on the traverse with a fool hardy manoeuvre that he did not have enough space to complete. I felt so sorry for the first young lad and even though he had caused the accident he was so shaken up I spent some time helping him. The second, if I had been younger I would have beat the living daylights out of him to knock in some sense.

Today, first down hill day for me, very few people on the slopes and I was wiped out again and most definitely the second level of ďaccidentĒ. I was on the Car-park T bar, late teen early twenty something sees me and decided to go for it to save a fraction of a second instead of waiting for me to go past and go behind. He straightened his board sped up and hit me full on. Is that an accident? Is that the same as running a red light in a car where you would be prosecuted for reckless driving and causing injury?

Interestingly this happened in full sight of a lifty no comment from him until I waved at him and said do something. He did, please ski in control he said to the boarded!!! ďOkĒ and off he went I am sure ready to collide another day or later the same day.

What do you do, my day was cut short with my injury. The hapless twenty something is away having a laugh about the old guy he just flattened.

Grumble over but there is a serious side to this. I spent the hey day 70s and 80s on crowded CG slopes with out collision. Is it people donít care anymore or donít they understand the consequences of there actions. Do we have to go the way of the US and start litigation to make people think of their actions, even restricting the areas boarders and skiers share, not a nice thought.

If it had been me I would have adopted one idea from the US/ Canada. If a lifty or patrol sees an incident the ski pass has an obvious diagonal marker pen line drawn across it, the person can be watched, any other altercation and a second line is drawn forming an X, the pass is no longer valid and you are off the mountain.

May be Iíll have a chat with Colin next week.

Grumpy and sore,

WM

I dont know why you start this hate-the-boarer vs skier debate, and talk about separated areas. It is individuals not boarder vs skier!

Last year a young lad skier went straight into the back of me leaving me stunned. I am a snowboarder and not a spring chicken either, as yourself. The skier spun round saw i was conscious and skied off. This was on sunnyside glenshee a green run. This skier was going way too fast.

Also last year a female skier twice my size went into me as she didnt know how to stop and was with an instructor. I had a shoulder rotator cuff iinjury that i spent a year stretching etc to gain full movement back.

Its par for the course but i dont go around slagging off skiers as you appear so readily to do about snowboarders.

Its individuals, come out of your time-warp.

Oh by the way shall i continue on about skiers and their poles nearly takng my eye out???




Edited 2 times. Last edit at 19.50hrs Sat 17 Dec 11 by snowflo.
WindyMiller


Guest
Re: When is it an accident?
Date Posted: 20.24hrs on Sat 17 Dec 11

This is not a hate the boarder message. Why do you think I am talking only about boarders? I did not mention whither the first two accidents were boarders or skiers, the young lad I first mentioned happened to be a skier. Why do you think it is a hate the boarder thread? I was talking about accidents. Skiers have accidents, boarders have accidents, I even mention I would dislike to see some of the anti collision measures taken in other countries such as segregated areas. Today the accident was caused by a boarder tomorrow it could be a skier.

I mentioned accidents in this thread as it is not relevant to cairngorm snow conditions area.

You seem to have misunderstood the point, when is an accident not an accident and becomes a reckless act, which needs to be dealt with, skier or boarder. This is an important topic I would like to see discussed.

WM

cratermaker


Guest
Re: When is it an accident?
Date Posted: 22.18hrs on Sat 17 Dec 11

I rather like the idea of the / and X, but don't think it will catch on. Probably a cultural difference between us and the US.

I hate the Traverse on CM. I have had so many near misses, always due to folk going faster than my sedate pace. There isn't much room there and it is a fast run. I now use a helmet on piste as a result of a near miss there, which I would certainly put down to pure accident. Most of the close shaves are down to unsafe speeds for that stretch of piste. It's only a matter of time.........
Biff


Guest
Re: When is it an accident?
Date Posted: 11.02hrs on Sun 18 Dec 11
The X mark on the pass is a very good idea but unlikely to catch on. If you were a season pass holder does this mean that your pass is invalid for the remainder of the season as surely the mark could not be removed? A new season pass would have to be issued the next day/time you were and there would be a cost to both parties. A non season pass holder would just turn up for their skiing next day and get a pass at no extra cost to them or the resort and surely we should be encouraging more season pass holders.


The Traverse at CG is a serious accident waiting to happen. Skiers generally go way too fast here and boarders generally go too slow (myself included) as this is a very narrow section.


"The second, if I had been younger I would have beat the living daylights out of him to knock in some sense."
This is why i never go to Gorm now! Too many pretentious people (WM, I am not directing this straight at you but this is the general consensus) on the mountain. I have seen 2 fights at the Gorm, both between a skier and border(for reference the skier won both times, surprising considering the footwear!) you never get this at the Coe or any of the other resorts for that matter!
Education not aggrevation may help with the general animosity between skiers and boarders at the Gorm as both parties are as bad as one another! We should embrace both sports as one without the other will only have one outcome - ski resorts in Scotland closing.


Should we go down the litigation route? This is why my car insurance keeps increasing...people claim hundreds of thousand for injuries that lets be honest are minor compared to the compensation and where the persons involved have possibly lost £20k at most in earnings. We should all take out our own personal winter sports insurance to cover any such instances.


When is it an accident? Well lets be honest, did the guy deliberately mean to hit you? Unlikely, which means it was just an accident though I do agree that the person in question should have used a bit more common sense.WM, as you would have been going uphill in the T-Bar watching the guy come down you could have used the skiers secret weapon - poles held out in front with the tips at eye level, bet the wee begger would have missed you then! I would do all I can to avoid someone as in your case I do not want to ruin my day with an injury.

Hope you recover from your injuries quickly and can get back on the mountains soon WM
snowflo


Guest
Re: When is it an accident?
Date Posted: 19.29hrs on Sun 18 Dec 11
Windymiller, i got the point of your thread, why mention segregated areas, if you're talking about accidents/ blame.

Also mentioning a boarder but nothing previously, leaves a bias slant to your post. It was almost daily mail like:-)



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 19.39hrs Sun 18 Dec 11 by snowflo.
WindyMiller


Guest
Re: When is it an accident?
Date Posted: 10.10hrs on Mon 19 Dec 11

Interesting the points from creatermaker and Biff about cultural differences and the X idea not catching on, any idea what would be a more acceptable? I would hope once a / is on your pass you would be more likely to thing about your actions, at least for the rest of the day so not to lose your pass even more so for an expensive season ticket.

I keep thinking of a car analogy where recklessly speeding drivers continually cause a hazard (not a 63 in a 60 limit but the 50s in a 30). Should the police stop them and tell them please slow down smile and let them on their way or should they issue a notice? Or maybe put them on the naughty chair for an hour? Would that be an option at a ski resort, the chair of shame beside a lifties hut? If skier or boarder is behaving like an idiot time out is called and they have to sit on the chair for 30 min as everyone goes past and looks. The sin bin approach in ice hockey.

In a number of US resorts there are segregated areas for beginners, families and seniors. I donít like this approach it labels people and creates a feeling if you are in that pidgin hole you must go into that area and others think why arenít you where you should be! Snoflo please donít turn this into boarders / skiers, there is no intended slant to the thread. Merry Christmas to you from Tunbridgwells smiling smiley

Biff, I agree litigation is the wrong way to go but you touch on my main question when is an accident an accident and when is it an inevitable out come of your actions. Missing a turn, catching an edge falling over in the path of another person is all part of skiing, going full pelt down the traverse towards a number of snow ploughers zigzagging shakilyÖ. Or trying a 360 on the narrowest part with out looking behind you or ensuring there is enough space to complete your manoeuvre.

I agree GC is probably the most genuine place to ski, there is still a generally accepted code of conduct and there is a passing nod to it by the majority. But look at the catchment area, Glasgow, the friendliest UK city (UK survey along with Liverpool). At CG it appears this nod to the code of conduct is as dead as the parrot. I am convinced there could easily be a paper written on the social dynamics of the different Scottish ski resorts.

Donít confuse pretentious with people not being afraid to speak out when they see something dangerous like a T bar being thrown way or people jumping three lines at the M1 Q as they canít be bothered to wait like everyone else. The greatest crime in history is not to say or do anything.I would say there are probably a lot more middle class people at CG than the others, they behave just as badly as upper and lower classes, just with a different accent smiling smiley an accent that can seem pretentious to others.

The important bit now after the above ramble.

How is the code of conduct and sense of responsibility reinstated? Carrot or the stick approach? What will work? / , X idea from the US, the sin bin? Any other ideas? We have abroad spectrum of mountain usesrs here, someone must have a good idea?

WM

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