You are NOT Logged in.
Meet up and have a chat about anything, just about. Pop in and get the craic...
Goto Thread: PreviousNext
Goto: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Goto Page:  12Next
Current Page:1 of 2
JacksonR


Posts: 35
Joined: Oct 2003
Last Visited: 13:50
28th May 2009
Windfarms
Date Posted: 14.14hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08
I was listening to this on BBC scotland yesterday

[news.bbc.co.uk]

Now, it is because I'm a city dweller that I can't see the problem or is it genuinely a mistake to build them?

I can understand issues relating to migratory bird routes or areas of SSI but to oppose it on the basis of "spoiling the view" seems very NIMBY to me.

Appologies if a similar topic has been discussed ad nausem before...
WebCT_Guru


Posts: 674
Joined: Nov 2006
Last Visited: 14:32
21st Jan 2019
Re: Windfarms
Date Posted: 14.33hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08
I have heard that it would take a farm 25 years (past its expected lifetime ) of energy production to offset the amount of energy that was originally used to create the windwarm in the first place.

Again, this could be propaganda?
William


Posts: 523
Joined: Mar 2004
Last Visited: 08:32
12th Apr 2008
Re: Windfarms
Date Posted: 14.40hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08
wind farms ARE propaganda

Not a single conventional power station can be taken off line - they are needed for when the wind doesn't blow.

I know of a wind farm in Reading (supposedly powering an industrial site) that often takes power from the grid to turn it's blades so the locals think it is working.

They are okay for micro-generation, that's about it.
alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 17:02
27th Mar 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Windfarms
Date Posted: 14.50hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08
Quote:
wind farms ARE propaganda

Not a single conventional power station can be taken off line - they are needed for when the wind doesn't blow.


They are a valid part of the mix and using some of the older power stations only when needed will extend their working life - I guess short term intermittency is a bigger issue than a week under a big high pressure due to the time and inefficiencies in say firing up a coal station?

Periods of down time due to the intermittent nature of wind farms will be the least in Scotland and providing the balance of wind power is not excessive, it's rare that all potential areas are too clam at the same time, plus increased use of pump storage in hydro schemes has the potential to provide a means to effectively store wind power output to boost capacity at peak times or times where wind production falls.

However the UK governments idea of a wind farm every half mile around the Coast is just bonkers. So is the rules governing grid connections in this country which necessitate massive wind farms in the first place for them to have a sufficient commercial return to cover the connection costs.

There are places suited for wind farms and there are places that are definately not. The balance in such renewables should be in smaller wind farms and community level facilities, not massive 200+ turbine facilities which over dominate the land. We need some fundamental changes in regulatory and government attitude though and the real problem is always going to be that Grid Electricity is a good taxable commodity.

Tidal power is surely the most useful source in terms of potential because its regular, and available capacity at a given time can be reasonably well calculated.



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 14.53hrs Tue 29 Jan 08 by alan.
Hustler


Posts: 760
Joined: Oct 2006
Last Visited: 07:52
19th Aug 2019
Re: Windfarms
Date Posted: 16.23hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08
If you want to see the business sense of these things, talk to Michelin in Dundee. The company is a staunch supporter and will tell anyone who listens how much power their own 2 turbines (big ones) produce and occasionally export.
They do require a lot of energy to manufacture and build but the crossover point I've seen some pretty solid evidence for, was at the 12 year stage approximately.
Plus they're a lot more elegant engineering than pylons.

What would be most sensible is to do what Michelin have done, build them in a windy site, right where you need the power to reduce transmission losses.
One on every tower block in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen...
William


Posts: 523
Joined: Mar 2004
Last Visited: 08:32
12th Apr 2008
Re: Windfarms
Date Posted: 17.07hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08
alan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote:wind farms ARE propaganda
>
> Not a single conventional power station can be
> taken off line - they are needed for when the wind
> doesn't blow.
>
> They are a valid part of the mix and using some of
> the older power stations only when needed will
> extend their working life - I guess short term
> intermittency is a bigger

With coal fired stations that is impossible. You just cannot switch these things on and off. All "fuel" fired stations suffer from this (to varying degrees). And power distribution doesn't work like that. Power is needed in an instant. So the old stations will be kept switched on. Which makes the whole wind-farm exercise a joke.
Binky


Posts: 23
Joined: May 2007
Last Visited: 22:10
16th Mar 2011
Re: Windfarms
Date Posted: 17.40hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08
Eh heres an idea, our slopes have covered the land in horrid machinery, why dnt we get wind turbines but up at the top of every chairlift and ski tow might even drive prices down in the long run.
Ive a wind farm not far from my house, at the time it was build many oposed it mainly outsiders its not hidden in a large corrie and you only see fleeting glances of it but heh it works and works well, we should use our wind power and our micro hydro as well as solar power that way we might continue to see snow for yrs to come.

Binky
alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 17:02
27th Mar 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Windfarms
Date Posted: 18.08hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08
William, read the post before launching off. "With coal fired stations that is impossible. You just cannot switch these things on and off. "

That is exactly what I said about problems of responding to short term intermittency.

Having said that however had it not been for the capacity Scotland already has in terms of wind and hydro the lights might very well have gone off last year, with Longannet and Hunterston B power stations down at the same time.

Is that not the beauty of Hydro Electric, it can be just switched on almost literally at the flick of a switch?
remote_patrol


Posts: 1013
Joined: Apr 2007
Last Visited: 22:53
20th Apr 2021
Re: Windfarms
Date Posted: 18.25hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08
not against wind farms at all (i actually quite like the sight of turbines), but agreed with alan on the massive farm schemes, apart from anything else the profits (if any) from those generally don't go to local communities anyway.

the original hydro schemes definately show the way to go, run for the benefit of those whose doorstep they're on! (at least they before before SSE/npower/centrica etc took them over) i'm fairly sure there were plans drawn up back in the '60s for a load more dams a couple of which were pumped stores, maybe they should be dusted off before we go mental with the turbines.

between more hydro, tidal and a few local windmills we'd be laughing (intermittancy and all).

and then we could export the excess down south and build massive snow cannons on every mountain smiling smiley


HTH


Posts: 3210
Joined: Nov 2005
Last Visited: 11:13
20th Feb 2018
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Windfarms
Date Posted: 18.46hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08
Pump-Store Hydro is the key element. This was used to bank Nuclear power surplus, and was a vital partner to the nuclear decades in Scotland. I don't think highland rivers were ever a sufficient source of power on their own.?

Hydro schemes are perfect for storing any excess from wind/tidal generation, so the availability of power can be smoothed out over days & weeks. - Whatever renewable (or fission/fusion) source you opt for, it's essential to partner it with Hydro/Storage capacity.
James D


Guest
Re: Windfarms
Date Posted: 18.57hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08
William, with regards to your comments,

Wind turbines are carbon neutral in approximatey 6 months, that's including the build and installation.

Wind turbines have been proven to be an effective method of power production for up to 20% of the UK energy mix ( a greater proportion in other countries due to their existing power infrastructure)

Gas turbines currently produce approximately 35% of UK electricity and are capable of quick start up and responce to power flucuations.

Nuclear power can produce the base load power supply with renewables and gas (and also pumped storage where already in use) to provide the additional generation capacity.

The Uk currently lacks a sufficiently large electricity connection to the continent to export and import power when necessary.

Wind power does work and is suitable method of generating electricity in the uk..


thats me done.

James
William


Posts: 523
Joined: Mar 2004
Last Visited: 08:32
12th Apr 2008
Re: Windfarms
Date Posted: 19.16hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08
Is that not the beauty of Hydro Electric, it can
> be just switched on almost literally at the flick
> of a switch?



Depends on the type of Hydro. Most of the hydro we have in this country creates cheap electricity during peak times, and at off peak times, it is pumped back up the hill!

So the green credentials of many of these schemes are zero (until somebody creates a perpetual motion machine), because it takes more energy to pump the water back up the hill than was created by it falling down the hill! Of course, they were built when such things didn't matter, and cheap power did.

The new scheme at Glendoe doesn't do that - the water flows straight into Loch Ness.





James - I 100% agree with you that we should be using nuclear as our core supply

JacksonR


Posts: 35
Joined: Oct 2003
Last Visited: 13:50
28th May 2009
Re: Windfarms
Date Posted: 19.20hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08
I def agree with Alan's comments about tidal power - we have an abundance of that. It's already started [news.bbc.co.uk] in Orkney and they plan to also use that site as a tesing bed for future technologies.

Aside from the obvious environmental benefits one thing the whole of the UK should start looking at is being energy self sufficient.

We should look at what Norway have achieved with hydro - in 2000 99% of it's electricity came from hydro and they are one of the largest per capita users of electricity in the world.
II


Posts: 1283
Joined: Nov 2005
Last Visited: 09:22
4th Aug 2019
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: Windfarms
Date Posted: 21.09hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08
Ahh.... windfarms my pet hate


utter waste of money space time etc......

go slide....



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 21.10hrs Tue 29 Jan 08 by II.
James D


Guest
Re: Windfarms
Date Posted: 21.14hrs on Tue 29 Jan 08

Why do you think that II?
Goto Page:  12Next
Current Page:1 of 2
Your Name: 
Your Email: 
Subject: